"Marine commander fired" Topic

US Marine Corps battalion commander fired for posting video criticizing military leaders for failing to take responsibility for the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.

link

Expected nothing less, the upper echelons are politically and peer protected. He knew what he was doing but felt he owed it to the Marines at the pointy end of the stick to say what he said.

Of course he was fired. He knew he would be when he did it.
A cynical person would say that he wasn't expecting a promotion anyway, so blaze of glory time!
He'll serve the 2-1/2 years to get his pension. Then out.
But he will be serving that time counting basketballs in the Aleutians.
He was right, but not correct.

I see a run for a political office in his near future.

He got off easy. Patton would have shot him.

That IS a shame.

Hopefully, under the next administration, he WILL be reinstated, given a promotion and a large raise, and command of a division for daring to say what everyone IS thinking.

We need more brave men in our armed forces now.

An officer stands up for his men and is castigated for it; how friggin times have changed.

John OFM – he was right and correct.

What does this have to do with wargaming?

Bottom line … he said what had to be said. But you can't jump the chain of command.

he was right and correct.

Agree …

What does this have to do with wargaming?

What does Dunkirk, DBP, etc., has to do with wargaming …? Everything … This is the USA's/NATO's Dunkirk, Gen Patraus even said that.

Legion 4, then General Petraeus' remarks. The linked post is not related to wargaming.

Don't know if you noticed many threads here are not directly related to wargaming. But current events. Even Bill is making many comments …

Has Bill made you click on any of the threads here ?

Bill ?

You can have a +2 Marine major who on a 1-3 on D6 be taken off the table. That's what is all about. But if he succeeds he can re roll a missed die somewhere.

They fired him for that? Seems like the USMC can't handle the truth. A morally and ethically corrupt entity in my book. One day they have full confidence in him, then he speaks his opinion and suddenly, no confidence. the message is quite clear for all to know, follow the orders, do not speak your mind, "Yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full sir"…

That line of thinking and acting will cost lives in battle as an army of yes sayers and others order men to their deaths in glorious defeat.

What USMC LTC said was true … regardless.

We lost personnel because at the very tops' very poor orders were given. On many occasions before this disaster and now. IMO this is unforgivable.

He got off easy. Patton would have shot him.

No, 'cause Patton would have won…

Allow me to clarify my "right but not correct" remark.
What he said was right.
But, and this is a big but. At his rank gets higher and higher, there are at least 4 other officers in line for the next bump up. It's possible he saw his career at a dead end. So he decided to do the morally right thing. But he did it on social media for maximum exposure. He was relieved of duty in his current position and assignment. It's telling that he fully excepted it. But he's still a Marine officer. He hasn't been kicked out. Yet. But his review will be coming soon. You don't get to stay in the Marines just because you want to hold out for retirement, which is 2.5 years away. He will be removed, and is expecting it.
What he did was not politically correct behavior for an officer.
There is no way what he did can be excused in the military. It's conduct unbecoming and all that.

The Former Guy is probably relishing it. I bet he would even "reinstate" him and make him a two star general when HE is "reinstated".
BTW, constitutionally, how is that "reinstatement" supposed to happen? I've studied the Constitution and can't find that anywhere. Perhaps a scholar can enlighten me.

They fired him for that? Seems like the USMC can't handle the truth.

Maybe you applaud anarchy in the ranks of officers but I do not.
If you are going to do something like that, you should immediately hand in your commission.
In what nation's armed forces and on what planet would he be allowed to hold his commission?
Get real. He forced their hand and fully anticipated it.
I would not trust any military that would tolerate what he did.

It's the Marines. Not the English Department at Muellenburg College.

Not a cover-up, not a noble act, not standing up for what is right or however you want to fantasize about this. It was stupid and illegal: Article 88 of the UCMJ: "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct." Article 89 of the UCMJ: "(a) Disrespect. Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward that person's superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct." And that's the high-level stuff – I'm sure he violated the social media policies of the service; you know, the same ones he's expected to enforce for his own subordinates if they had said something similar about their chain of command (himself included). Extra stupid since he obviously knew he was going to run afoul of these articles (his relief is probably just the opening salvo here, the court martial will come). And extra-extra stupid for doing it on social media since he was obviously grandstanding for the people who have a Hollywood level understanding of military order and discipline. The true professional would have said this in person, in private, to the appropriate superiors. "But he never would have been able to express his opinion to someone that high up the chain!" Yes, that's right – that is how the military chain of command works. If you don't like it, resign and you can freely speak your mind afterwards. While in service, you can have all the opinions you want as long as they don't leave your mouth unless asked for, and then within the boundaries set by your superior. You can't run a killing machine like your civilian government. Regardless on how you feel of the correctness of his opinion, the corrosive effect on good order and discipline and atrocious example of criticizing the chain of command is inexcusable.

On Friday, August 27, 2021, Scheller confirmed he was being "relieved for cause" and that he was "exiting the Marine Corps."

Amid his announcement, Scheller said: "America has so many issues … but it's my home."

"When my Marine Corps career comes to an end, I look forward to a new beginning.

"My life's purpose is to make America the most lethal and effective foreign diplomacy instrument.

"While my days of hand-to-hand violence may be ending … I see a new light on the horizon."

Reading between the lines as I said earlier this was a deliberate stunt. The man obviously has political ambitions.

+1 Alpha Decay
He will be a darling on the talk radio and cable news circuit.

Reading between the lines as I said earlier this was a deliberate stunt. The man obviously has political ambitions.

I do not go along with that … I think he actually was sincere, etc., and of course his comments were correct. But at this point who knows ?

Just because he is fairly high ranking officer does not make him a "villain".

Yes Alpha Decay, I took and gave the oath, may times in the past in my youth. And know according to the UCMJ what he did was wrong, etc. But in light of what disaster/crisis/cluster , etc., is occurring in A'stan, what he said was true, IMO. Whatever his motives …

We don't have to follow illegal/unlawful orders … but sometimes we may have to follow stupid/idiotic/moronic possibly politically motivated, etc., orders.

You/we hoped those at the top knew what they are doing … again was see here again, this was not the case. Costing us more lives …

I'll bet that within 2 years he will run for some kind of political office at either a state or federal level.

Maybe so … he is surely more qualified than many holding some offices now. IMO of course … Won't mention any names but the list is very long.

Yep, I'd rather have a former Marine officer with command experience serve in political office than, let's say for example, a bar tender. ;-)

Or a reality tv star…

Or a community organizer…vs someone who ran a multi billion dollar corporation.

Wow … won't touch any of those comments ! However, +1 USAF Pilot …

It was stupid and illegal: Article 88 of the UCMJ: "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President,…

Oh really?? Seems to have worked out well for Vindman who did not get relieved of duty for making up a "whistleblower" charge to support a political attack on a POTUS, or even for Milley disparaging a POTUS, etc.

Seems its a pretty conditionally applied Article…so how much justice is there in the UCMJ today???

Well we all know how that works …

"All animals are equal … some are just more equal than others." …

Seeing how this has developed over the last few days, I've modified my beliefs a bit.
I think he realized that his promotion to full colonel was going to be a bit iffy, just because of numbers. Ok. Ride it out to the end, retire and collect a full pension. He can still be disgruntled, but do his duty.
And then the whole situation in Afghanistan offended him. Being a professional, of course it did.
Making that Facebook post took premeditation. He naturally assumed that this would be the end of his dead end career. He is planning to resign his commission ASAP. It's possible his resignation will come before a court martial. Like in the old days when his fellow officers would leave a revolver with one bullet on the nightstand. "For the good of the service."
So he will resign, if he hasn't already.

After all the paperwork clears up, he will go to work for FOX, OAN, or the other network dedicated to being anti-Biden. (Never CNN or MSNBC. He's too politically incorrect for them.) First as a "one time" guest, then more and more often. Soon he will be a regular contributor.
I am guessing that this new job will not turn out as beneficial for the networks as thought.
He will be a pariah to his former fellow officers. Secretly, they may agree. But professionally, he went against the Brotherhood, the Code. Nobody will talk to him. It would be too easy to figure out who is leaking to him. "My sources say…" will be a lie, and everyone will know it. Even Tucker and Sean will drain him dry, and move on.

Is what he said the truth? Yes.
Did it need to be said? Yes.
Should he be punished for it by the Marines? Of course! Who can argue that he should get away with it? Seriously? And be promoted???
Did he ruin his life? Probably. But he knew he would. There might be a Martyr Complex here, to go with his self justification.

I just wonder what he would have done, if he thought that his promotion to Full Colonel was assured. A good friend, a retired Marine officer, has told me how much more political the officers get, the higher they advance in rank. Again, I think that he was not very sure that he would get that promotion, so he acted like he did.

Oh really?? Seems to have worked out well for Vindman who did not get relieved of duty for making up a "whistleblower" charge to support a political attack on a POTUS, or even for Milley disparaging a POTUS, etc.

Yes, but did they call their military superiors gutless cowards, not fit to wear stars?

Looking at the video again, I think the Lt. Col has a very strong PTSD problem, that no one from the Corps has helped him with, they just decided to fire him and then he resigns. I think he needs a lot of help.

Again, I think that he was not very sure that he would get that promotion, so he acted like he did.

Possibly.

But is what he said true? Yes.

Has any senior officer in charge of the bloody CF unfolding before our eyes taking responsibility? No

Has any senior officer been disciplined or fired for this CF? No.

What does that say about our senior military leaders??? Nothing good. And it certainly tells our adversaries that we don't have serious people in charge of serious things.

I think he needs a lot of help.

Hopefully he will use is VA and get some help. I have a hard time to make him out as a villian. He did serve his nation in wartime for 17 years, IIRC. Many here can't say that … Including me …

Regardless IMO what he said was true.

I can't judge whether the LCol is suffering from PTSD or just greatly distressed because doing what's done goes against all of his training, professional ethics, etc. It's bound to be stressful. I can get where he's coming from – I've been upset for almost 20 years about what has been happening / hasn't been happening in Afghanistan. I left the military side of the business to work on homeland security/emergency management in 2006. I don't think I could go back. It bothered me a lot then and, apparently, it still bothers me – the events of the last while have brought back some of that emotion.

I have some thoughts about irregular warfare, stability & stabilization operations, peace support operations, peace operations, peace and stability operations, etc., etc., etc. I have a theory – when they get tired of the problem they don't sit down and rethink what they're doing. They just change the name so it looks like a new problem – but it's the same one and everyone knows it. Anyway, I'll put those thoughts in a different post that's more warfare theoretic so it doesn't look like finger pointing. (Actually my view on that is there's plenty of blame to spread around we needn't hoard it.)

However, I will make this comment which is to the point of the LCol's comments – he's right there's a lack of accountability. Long gone are the days of Lord Carrington (he resigned as Foreign Secretary with the Argentine invasion Falklands if you didn't know already). These days it's common practice in governments to have an unofficial policy of 'plausible deniability' – i.e., if something goes wrong don't inform up the chain so the seniors can claim they didn't know.

It's simple if there's no accountability we'll never get better and as sure as anything we'll be back in these types of messes again.

The high level of tactical excellence has been our salvation but it is far too often a case of sheep leading lions.

And, so people, say what's the wargaming significance. Probably not a lot if you restrict your gaming to skirmish engagements but if you want to play operational, theatre or pol-mil (i.e., diplomacy type) games then I would think a fair bit – but without honest after action reports / analysis of failed or even just muddled operations it's hard to calibrate game mechanics.

FYI – I did take part in a pol-mil game called PSOM (Peace Support Operations Model) developed by the UK (dstl). It was an insightful game – most of the players were people playing roles they'd have in a real operation.

Again … IMO he was right …

The high level of tactical excellence has been our salvation but it is far too often a case of sheep leading lions.

God bless him.

So on a presser today, White House spokestool Jen Psaki told a reporter in response to the "Responsibility" Question that Biden is satisfied that all of his Cabinet and senior military advisors gave the best advice they could, and no one -- *no one* will be reprimanded, fired or asked to resign.

Aghani-what? I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Nothing more to see here…move along citizen, move along!

Oh, then watch the Biden presser where he doubles down. Here's my live log:

Says he has no regrets about how the rout from Afghanistan was handled. We got thousands of people out, we got 90% of those who wanted out to get out, and if you got stuck in Afghanistan it's your own damn fault!!! So we only left 10% of Americans in Afghanistan behind, and some of those left behind they may be dual citizens and not really American! Oh, and the UN sent a strongly worded letter to the Taliban, so there, that'll do! And it's all Trump's fault anyway! I was left with a deal that said we pull out by May 1 and the Taliban don't attack the US, or we stay and all bets are off -- so I stayed 'cause I didn't want Afghanistan to fall, and the Taliban attacked and Afghanistan fell! (Say…what?!?! Bet CNN cuts that bit out).

And we did lots of stuff and flights and stuff, and we're proud of how much activity stuff we did! The biggest airlift in history, sooo amazing what we were able to do! Everyone did a fantastic job!! We couldn't have done a better job than we did, nobody could have done better – even if we started earlier and did it differently, which we didn't need to do since we did the right way! Besides, it's all Trump's fault anyway!

And we'll hunt you and down and and make you PAY if the Taliban attack the US or our allies! And the UN will expect the Taliban to stand up for women's rights! Or you'll pay and stuff! We'll rally the world to our side!!

Walks away from the podium, takes no questions (not that he'd get a tough question anyways).

Basically, we've always been at war with EastAsia!

You stayed with it longer than I did.

Actually…..
I would not put any blame on Intelligence. They predicted almost everything correctly (can't be 100%…), but their advice was ignored.
To a lesser degree, the same applies to the High Command. Their advice was ignored.
As they say, a fish rots from the head.

Now that the dust has hopefully settled is the time for those whose advice was ignored to step up and resign. You can't do that in the midst of an ongoing operation.
Yes. It will look self serving. But at the very least, it will shame and embarrass the administration.

I would not put any blame on Intelligence.

Yes, as we all know intel only good if the leadership takes actions. The proper actions …

But at the very least, it will shame and embarrass the administration.

We would think, but they are claiming victory ?

We got thousands of people out, we got 90% of those who wanted out to get out

90% is not a good figure.

Now a comment about math:

99% is not much better when it comes to human life.

If a large passenger airline conducted 99.99% of its flights in a safe manner, that means 0.01 % of flight were unsafe.

At 2,000 flights a day, that's one crash every 5 days. The airline would be out of business by the end of the week if it had a 99.99% safety record.

So when someone say such and such is 99.99% safe; is it really?

Now back to Afghanistan.
There are thousands of American citizens still trapped there.

Americans waving passports at an entry gate to US troops at Kabul airport were left behind…

link

And the "terrorists" that were droned in response to the suicide bombing may have just been an Aghani SIV family waiting to get to the Kabul airport to get out.

Afghan reporter Ali Latafi joined Yalda Hakim at the BBC to discuss the recent missile attack by Joe Biden that killed an Afghan family including several children in Kabul.

According to Latafi the family killed on Sunday by a US drone strike had Special Immigrant Visas (SIVs) to leave for the US and were about to leave Afghanistan.

Advertisement – story continues below

Reporter Ali Latafi: The family was expecting an SIV, they had received a call that a car would come and get you to the airport any day now. And that's why there were so many people in the house. They had all relocated to that one house and were waiting to leave.

Afghan journalist Ali Latifi @alibomaye tells me he went to the house where 10 family members including 6 children were killed by a US drone strike and that, tragically, they had been issued with special visas and were about to leave the country #Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/WF2SDRLyAZ

— Yalda Hakim (@BBCYaldaHakim) August 30, 2021

link

I have heard similar, but don't know who or what to believe? Another problem when you try to rush thru an operation like this. However, I hope this report is wrong. But again as we all know in an insurgency like this. Some in the situation our top leadership had put our troops in on the ground. Accidents/errors, etc. will happen.

The withdrawal should have started in March or April.

That error was compounded by abandoning Bagram.

Pulling troops out before the civilians.

Top leadership putting a cap on how many troops could be used for the evacuation.

The evacuation to be really successful should of had no caps imposed by the Top Leadership. Do what is takes to make this an orderly withdrawal and get everybody out.

Every Vet of any rank or anyone with any common sense knows all those errors cost us unnecessary deaths and lost of millions of dollars of equipment.

This is not a victory … unless you are the Taliban/AQ, etc. They are dancing in the streets, their ranks will fill with more jihadis from all over the world, etc., etc. …

It may just have moved into our backyards again, with lone wolves, etc.

The USA is looked at as very, very weak and incompetent by our enemies. I.e. China, Putin's Russia, Iran, North Korea, every jihadi/terrorists worldwide, etc. As well as weakening NATO's stance.

The USA is looked at as very, very weak and incompetent by our enemies. I.e. China, Putin's Russia, Iran, North Korea, every jihadi/terrorists worldwide, etc. As well as weakening NATO's stance.

Yep, which is a huge danger. Bullies prey on the weak, and if they see they US as weak they will push to get what they want and take risks and actions that could lead to conflict. And since they are all dictators, they forget that even in a flawed democracy the leadership will change and the new folks may not be as weak as the last folks were. And that sometimes brings its own danger as the bullies think maybe they need to act before a harda$s takes office.

It may just have moved into our backyards again, with lone wolves, etc.

Or maybe a 1200 mile long southern border that is being deliberately left open, by the same Admin that just collapsed Afghanistan and US prestige and influence globally, to any who would cross it is more of a concern…

When does incompetence cross the line into malevolence???

Yes, they may want to act while our leadership is worthless and weak. The US leadership won't always be this way. It will change[hopefully] in a year or so.

The border is almost as big of a disaster as A'stan. Nothing good will come of either of these self imposed cluster

Yep, which is a huge danger. Bullies prey on the weak, and if they see they US as weak they will push to get what they want and take risks and actions that could lead to conflict. And since they are all dictators, they forget that even in a flawed democracy the leadership will change and the new folks may not be as weak as the last folks were. And that sometimes brings its own danger as the bullies think maybe they need to act before a harda$s takes office.

Funnily enough, SB, that's precisely how Russia has viewed the US/NATO in the 1990s/early 2000s. Just replace US/dictators/democracy with the relevant terms….and here we are.