doc mcb | 27 Aug 2021 12:57 p.m. PST |
link "How many ISIS-K prisoners were left at Bagram and believed to have been released from the prison there & why weren't they removed before the U.S. pulled out to some place like Gitmo?"
Kirby: "Well, I don't know the exact number. Clearly, it's in the thousands" "If anyone was wondering how reportedly hundreds of ISIS-K fighters made it to Kabul, including those that facilitated the deadly bombings, now we know. Bagram is less than 30 miles from Kabul, and while we are continually told the Taliban and ISIS are sworn enemies, the Taliban let out all of these terrorists without a second thought. Now, the consequences of that have been realized." Our leadership is incompetent. Worse than incompetent: FOOLS!! |
Fitzovich | 27 Aug 2021 1:09 p.m. PST |
I believe that was done some time ago by The Former Guy. |
USAFpilot | 27 Aug 2021 1:20 p.m. PST |
I believe that was done some time ago by The Former Guy. No, not even close. Did you not comprehend anything that was written above? These ISIS prisoners were just recently released by the Taliban after they took over Bagram. doc mcb, it's beyond incompetence and foolishness; I'd say treasonous. |
ADAMS57 | 27 Aug 2021 1:25 p.m. PST |
They were released 1st part of July when base was overrun |
Gear Pilot | 27 Aug 2021 1:56 p.m. PST |
Too bad the prison didn't have an accidental fire. |
Tortorella | 27 Aug 2021 1:59 p.m. PST |
Yes, this was recent. It was the 5000 Taliban fighters who were release under the Former Guy's agreement with them. This also happened when we abandoned the Kurds on the Syrian border. One of many reasons perhaps, why the Former Guy is relatively quiet. |
John the OFM | 27 Aug 2021 2:18 p.m. PST |
I truly cannot fathom the cult like devotion to Former Guy. I voted for him twice, but it was really a vote against who his opponents were. Each time I did, I was ashamed of myself, because I knew exactly what he was like. |
McKinstry | 27 Aug 2021 2:38 p.m. PST |
A substantial amount of current Taliban leadership was released in 2020 as a part of the previous administrations negotiations with the Taliban. It should be noted that those negotiations also excluded the sitting Afghan government at that time. |
doc mcb | 27 Aug 2021 2:52 p.m. PST |
John, no cult, I think, and my reasons for voting were identical to yours. But he knows how to win. |
doc mcb | 27 Aug 2021 2:53 p.m. PST |
Tort, these are not Talibanis, but Isis fighters. |
USAFpilot | 27 Aug 2021 2:54 p.m. PST |
This debacle would never have occurred with the previous guy. The British Parliament got it right (bipartisan by the way) when they condemned our current administration over this disgrace. Never happened with the previous guy. |
USAFpilot | 27 Aug 2021 3:07 p.m. PST |
LAST WEEK: "Any attack on our forces or disruption of our operations at the airport will be met with swift and forceful response." This guy does exactly the opposite of what Teddy Roosevelt so famously said about speak softly but carry a big stick. What a disgrace, a totally failed leader who is leaving Americans stranded and hundreds of billions in US military equipment behind. Spin this anyway you want; but he is the guy in charge. He had no problem in his first week in office of overturning many thing by executive order. He owns this. |
Fitzovich | 27 Aug 2021 3:19 p.m. PST |
USAF Pilot…… LOL! What a treat to read your "interesting" comments. |
Tortorella | 27 Aug 2021 3:50 p.m. PST |
Sorry doc, I am also under the impression that most of the current Taliban leadership was released by the Former Guy's agreement with them. Current Guy owns the operation, Former Guy owns the decision to leave – and let the Taliban guys go. It is just not possible to blame Current Guy for the entire thing after 6 months. He really botched the operation. The rest of it belongs to a whole group of right and left wing politicians. |
Tortorella | 27 Aug 2021 3:55 p.m. PST |
And finally, I regret being sucked into this and the other discussions on this topic. It is not who I am. Bill, I guess I don't understand when something is political and gets pulled. I will check the policy. But I am not continuing to participate on this. |
USAFpilot | 27 Aug 2021 4:20 p.m. PST |
"Previous guy", "current guy", "previous administration", "Former Guy". Disturbing how so many go through these vocabulary contortions because they are afraid of being censored. What is wrong with us that we have to use this Orwellian language to communicate. Can't we be adults and have an honest and open discussion? Instead those who are the most sly (snide) get away with their carefully veiled insults. This constant censorship of direct and open comments is unamerican. Censorship of political ideas reminds me of totalitarian regimes. |
Col Durnford | 27 Aug 2021 5:25 p.m. PST |
Plenty of blame to go around, but only one person made the final decision to pull out by 9/11. Now who was it that said in 2007 that Afghanistan was "The war we need to win"? Here's a clue, he also said "Yemen was the war on terror done right". I can only imagine the news coverage if this happened two years ago. |
Editor in Chief Bill | 27 Aug 2021 11:06 p.m. PST |
It should be noted that those negotiations also excluded the sitting Afghan government at that time. Yes, but the agreement was 'conditions based' and required a subsequent agreement between the Taliban and the Afghan govt (which never happened, technically negating the original agreement). |
Thresher01 | 28 Aug 2021 1:53 a.m. PST |
"We" didn't, though some did, sadly. |
pavelft | 28 Aug 2021 4:56 a.m. PST |
What does this have to do with wargaming? |
ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 28 Aug 2021 5:14 a.m. PST |
It should be noted that the Taliban made a point of striking prisons to release their people – no doubt plenty of others slipped away in confusion. I also believe that the Taliban had something approaching a plan and its clearly been playing out over an extended period of time. I think this situation would pretty much have played out the same regardless of who had their backsides in the comfy seats. |
Dagwood | 28 Aug 2021 7:13 a.m. PST |
@ John the OFM My mother told me not to do anything you would be ashamed of later … |
Legion 4 | 28 Aug 2021 7:37 a.m. PST |
Yes, but the agreement was 'conditions based' and required a subsequent agreement between the Taliban and the Afghan govt (which never happened, technically negating the original agreement). Yes that is the bottom line. You can't blame the guy before this guy. Based on my studying the situation, training & experience in Infantry & air ops, etc. This guy made some very poor decisions and as we see those on the ground are paying for it as usual. Ignoring the intel for months … Abandoning Bagram against all military logic, etc. … [Which in part caused the release of 1000s of terrorists/jihadis] Withdrawing the Military before the civilians … Seems to me that was this guy's leadership, decisions, etc., … not the other guy before him …
I think this situation would pretty much have played out the same regardless of who had their backsides in the comfy seats. I disagree … for all the reasons I listed above. This guy's leadership and decisions made the tactical situation untenable, etc. IMO the other guy would have not made the "plethora" of poor, bad, decisions that put our people in the current cluster … It should be noted that the Taliban made a point of striking prisons to release their people – no doubt plenty of others slipped away in confusion. Yes that is what happened … AFAIK no one opened the locked does other than the Taliban. Which came about because Bagram was abandoned … What does this have to do with wargaming? We are wargaming the US/NATO withdrawal from A'stan. The biggest military failure to befall NATO and the USA in decades if ever. That is worth wargaming here in conversation on the net. What is not to get ? But in reality at this point the current bad decision making got us where we are now … |
Major Mike | 28 Aug 2021 7:43 a.m. PST |
Well, these men can serve a purpose for the Taliban. They really don't want them around, but, for the moment they really want the US and others gone. So, you let these guys run around and cause mischief. If they get killed, it saves you the bullet and regardless you get to claim deniability for their actions. "It's ISIS-K" is now the latest media buzzword. Maybe 10 years from now I could make a challenging miniature wargame out of this with all the factions involved. |
Jcfrog | 28 Aug 2021 7:44 a.m. PST |
Next game, I don't thonk the Chinese will have 5000(!!) prisoners. |
Legion 4 | 28 Aug 2021 7:48 a.m. PST |
Major Mike … I agree … You'd need a roster like at a football game with different numbers & jersey colors to tell who is who … Of course IMO in reality, the only good jihadi/terrorist is a dead one. So we'd have a target rich environment once the USA/NATO are gone. Drones fill the air … "Death From Above" … |
USAFpilot | 28 Aug 2021 7:48 a.m. PST |
Looks like a very informative post was entirely deleted on this thread. You could have just deleted the part where the poster called someone a commie if you though that was offensive. Who knows, maybe it's true. |
Legion 4 | 28 Aug 2021 7:52 a.m. PST |
Well the PRC/CCP are still commies aren't they ? And they have made deals with the Taliban … |
ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 28 Aug 2021 8:39 a.m. PST |
Personally I suspect the Chinese may well cut deals with whichever faction they need to get what they want and allow inter-factional 'business' to carry on as usual as long as those factions don't interfere with their projects. Prior to the Taliban's victory they seemed prepared to do separate deals with the national government as was and the Taliban should the country have remained divided. Clearly Uyghur refugees in the country think they will promptly get flung under the bus link |
Legion 4 | 28 Aug 2021 9:30 a.m. PST |
I already posted links on this thread – TMP link The PRC/CCP was making deals with the Taliban before all this … The Uyghurs are a write off … Etc., The Taliban & the PRC/CCP are the Big Winners… |