"Will The Panjshir Valley Be The Center Of Resistance" Topic

… Against The Taliban?

"Several thousand anti-Taliban fighters are reported to be holding out against the Taliban in a remote valley with a narrow entrance – little more than 30 miles or so from the capital Kabul.

It's not the first time the dramatic and imposing Panjshir Valley has been a flashpoint in Afghanistan's recent turbulent history – having been a stronghold against Soviet forces in the 1980s, and the Taliban in the '90s.

The group holding out there now – the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan (NRF) – recently reminded the world of the valley's strength…"

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Armand

China's baby now. They want to strip mine Afghanistan of its rare earth minerals and have chosen a side -- the Taliban. Which means they have immediately made enemies across the rest of Afghanistan, where factions are hunkering down until the dust settles from the calamitous US retreat from Kabul before taking any action.

Rare earth minerals aren't actually rare, it's just a name.

I would rather have the Taliban be the center of resistance against ISIS-K.
If you have to choose sides…
And why should we choose sides?
May the last Marine to leave Afghanistan shake the dust from his boots.
"They" asked Putin if Russia would consider going back. He said "Nope. We learned our lesson."

Let the Chinese try to push their weight around. See how they like it.

That valley is ruled by two warlords who hate each other.

BTW, consider who we defeated in World War 2. Then consider where they stood 30 years later.

That valley is ruled by two warlords who hate each other.

And one of them is willing to work with the Taliban whilst the other is openly against it.

An Interesting question…

What If America Had Never Invaded Afghanistan?

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Armand

Wishful thinking for some. They will have to have 'some agreement' with rest of Afghanistan.
Otherwise, in an 'untenable' position'.
And don't even THINK about military support…THEY DO THEIR OWN THING…!
Munitions… what's not to love? ;)

From what I have read, these fighters in the valley are Afghanistan special force troops. They were trained by our spec ops teams. They decided not to give up to the Taliban when the US pulled all of the air and ground support out hastily.

From what I'm reading, the Northern Territories seem to be the center of resistance currently, being led by the son of one of the warlord's who kicked off the first invasion and battles, 20 years ago. Apparently, the father was killed but his son is carrying on.

Yes, the media, well some of the media has reported this resistance movement(s). And as usual this resistance will have to deal with problems, e.g. infighting, "warlordism", etc. However, as long as they are fighting the radical fundamentalists, etc., is a good thing.

And yes, I have heard many in the resistance/NRF are Afghan Spec Ops, etc. They don't want the Taliban/AQ and ISIS, etc. ruling their lands, etc. I hope them best, somehow they will get resupplied, etc., to carry on this resistance.

Rumors are NGO/Vet groups, etc., are somehow helping these resistance fighters out. Regardless a long as they are killing the Taliban/AQ, ISIS, etc. Good Hunting !

Apparently, the father was killed but his son is carrying on.

Yes IIRC, Shah Masoud was killed by UBL/the Taliban early on. He/they knew Masoud would be a threat to AQ/the Taliban, etc. Some say if Masoud had lived his forces may have made a difference with keeping AQ, etc. on the run/busy … But how knows ?
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From the link :

Following the rise of the Taliban in 1996, Massoud, who rejected the Taliban's fundamentalist interpretation of Islam,[11] returned to armed opposition

Afghanistan has been a hotbed of tribal jealousies, internecine fighting, and uneasy truces between warlords for centuries. This is going to take a while to sort out after we have exited.

I think there may be many surprises as to the way things settle out. Almost certainly the Taliban will be dominant, but their leadership and its alliances are very much up in the air.

They will need to secure their rule, and figure out a way to fund their government very quickly. I'm not sure they are ready to swap out American involvement for Iranian or Chinese. We shall see.

They will need to secure their rule, and figure out a way to fund their government very quickly. I'm not sure they are ready to swap out American involvement for Iranian or Chinese. We shall see.

China's already been working to cut deals with the Taliban…

"With economic assets to secure, China embraces the Taliban

Afghanistan's stability is key to protect a copper mine, oil blocks, $50 USDbn of Belt-and-Road projects in the neighbourhood."

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"China and the Taliban Begin Their Romance"

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There will be an Afghan Civil War, and it's already started.

It never ended…

Agree…

Armand

The War in Afghanistan Is Not Over

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Armand

Fine. Let's get out.
Not our circus, not our monkeys.

"China and the Taliban Begin Their Romance"

Yes posted the same link elsewhere. It has been clear for sometime. The PRC/CCP must have read "The Art of The Deal" … and maybe the Talban too …

The War in A'stan was never over and will continue. A very "uncivil" war. With a number of players. We have to remember ISIS, AQ, the Haqqani network are not going to stop trying to attack the US & Europe just because we left "Talibanland".

Drone strikes should continue on ISIS, etc. Our aerial/orbital, etc., assets are much better than in 2001. We killed a couple of ISIS-K last night.

Get and keep the drones in the air … It is a target rich environment. And jihaids/terrorists are many …

Now Turkey wants in….

BREAKING: Turkey expected to recognize Taliban following US withdrawal

….The main points of the draft deal include:
Turkey recognizing the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan
Turkey and Qatar operating the airport in a consortium
Ankara providing security through a private firm, whose staff will consist of former Turkish soldiers and police
That additional members of the Turkish special forces, operating in plainclothes to secure Turkish technical staff, do not leave the airport perimeter.

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Of course they want a piece of the action too !

Well, may they enjoy all the fortune they deserve!!

And more ! The Turks do have a religious "connection" to the Taliban/AQ, etc., yes ?

And of course $ talks

Are Syrian jihadis ready to take the fight to Afghanistan?

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Armand

Fighting reported in Panjshir valley after failure of negotiations.

Are Syrian jihadis ready to take the fight to Afghanistan?

Good it will add to the slaughter … that no one can stop.

Fighting reported in Panjshir valley after failure of negotiations.

Have heard the former ANA SF, etc. plan to fight on. Some NGOs, Vet organizations, etc. along with others are trying to get Christians, Afghanis, Americans, etc. out of this Taliban/Terrorist/jihadi paradise nightmare.

Are also trying to support the Resistance with supplies, etc. Maybe some one could give them drone support ?

So you think US should still be involved here either? 20 years not long enough.

The rebels are all Tajiks. Supporting them doesn't do anything except help entrench ethnic divisions.

So you think US should still be involved here either? 20 years not long enough.

Looks like it isn't the US Gov't but NGOs, Vet groups, etc.,. Doubt it can be kept up though.

Supporting them doesn't do anything except help entrench ethnic divisions.

Do you think anyone can really do anything to stop all the divisions i.e. ethic, religious, tribal, warlords, mullahs, etc., in A'stan ? Save for the Afghans themselves … Which does no look like that will happen anytime soon.

Note: the Taliban, AQ, ISIS, etc., are not our "friends". We are infidels after all. And AQ & ISIS still harbor trying to do damage to the US, Europe, etc.

Anti-Taliban Resistance Forces Train In The Afghan Mountains Vowing Never To Bend The Knee

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Armand

Do you think anyone can really do anything to stop all the divisions i.e. ethic, religious, tribal, warlords, mullahs, etc., in A'stan ? Save for the Afghans themselves … Which does no look like that will happen anytime soon.

No, hence why waste American or Australian dollars n supporting any rebels/warlords etc?

Note: the Taliban, AQ, ISIS, etc., are not our "friends". We are infidels after all. And AQ & ISIS still harbor trying to do damage to the US, Europe, etc.

And it has been proven that mass terrorism is generally curbed by surveillance, greater global police cooperation, better immigration controls, and better border security.

Proven fact: JDAMS and Hellfires don't make the world safer. They certainly don't stop legal disgruntled local Muslim <insert name> from stabbing, shooting and driving over people.

Erm. I rather admire their spirit… BUT LOOK AT THE MAP!
Yes, we could, and maybe should, support…but probably another lost cause. Cannot see any commitment to them from anyone at present time.
But… :(

No, hence why waste American or Australian dollars n supporting any rebels/warlords etc?

Of course but that won't stop Russia, China, Iran, etc., supporting them …

And it has been proven that mass terrorism is generally curbed by surveillance, greater global police cooperation, better immigration controls, and better border security.

Again you tell me what I already know. But some gov'ts just don't get that. Beside better immigration control and border security is deemed racist, islamophobic, xenophobic, etc., etc. No one wants to be called any of those horrible names ! <hyperbole>

JDAMS and Hellfires don't make the world safer. They certainly don't stop legal disgruntled local Muslim <insert name> from stabbing, shooting and driving over people.

That may be true in some situations … ? Unless you are one of the troops on the ground in some 3d world hole where many there want to kill infidels.

Those weapons could and will save the lives of you & your comrades. Of course as I always say, cause I'm a former dumb Army Grunt … every jihadi you can kill is one less that can kill you or your comrades or you family, etc., …

Call me old school but killing your enemy, especially their leadership, is still a good idea … That has been proven many times too. Ignoring them won't do anything, either. They usually won't go away …

Unless you are one of the troops on the ground in some 3d world Bleeped texthole where many there want to kill infidels.

Except like the JDAM and the Hellfire, the American soldiers in some 3rd world country also don't stop terrorism.

We have gone over this before … you seem to forget … Soldiers[sailors, USMC, USAF]don't get to choose what orders they will follow. As long as those orders are legal …

They go where they are told. If that be Iraq, Syria, A'stan, etc.

Once on the ground, and soldiers are getting shot at … it's just not about stopping terrorism, though in this case it was terrorists that are trying to kill you. It's survival … and if killing terrorists will help you survive. Then JDAMs, Hellfires, MOABs, etc., etc., will stop terrorism.

But I've used this scenario many times before. Some don't get it or don't want to …

Do you think anyone can really do anything to stop all the divisions i.e. ethic, religious, tribal, warlords, mullahs, etc., in A'stan ? Save for the Afghans themselves … Which does no look like that will happen anytime soon.

Afghanistan is an artificial country, arbitrarily drawn into being. It would behoove the world to help it devolve into the 5-6 separate states it really should be.

Most are still in the 7th Century. Trying to divide it by ethic, tribal, religious, etc. lines, albeit sounds like a good idea.. Will probably have to wait until they at least move into the 20th.

The reports of reprisals, beheadings, etc., constantly in the news. And those are ones we hear about.

Just like Iraq, also an artificial[failing]state, should be divided into 3 nations, one Shia, one Sunni & one Kurd. We see that won't happen anytime soon either.

We have gone over this before … you seem to forget … Soldiers[sailors, USMC, USAF]don't get to choose what orders they will follow. As long as those orders are legal …

Look at the bigger picture – why is the US there in the first place? What national interest does it serve?

Pte Joe Smith from Hopkinsville, Kentucky going to Iraq or Somalia or Afghanistan or Mali is not going to make Hopkinsville Kentucky any safer from terrorism.

In fact it makes Hopkinsville, Kentucky less safer cause it:

a.) Perpetuates notion of US as anti-Islam.
b.) Forever wars create lots of refugees in the west some of whom are radicalised, one of whom might just be in Hopkinsville when he decides it's time to bring the war to the infidels.

I think this is something you have struggled to grapple with.

An Islamist insurgency in Mali or Somalia means nothing for America.

Note even if Islamists take over those countries it doesn't mean they are hostile to the USA – indeed Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and UAE are Islamist fundamentalist states and are US allies.

So here's an idea:

1. Withdraw, let those people sort their own poop out.

2. If need be get your Islamist buddies in KSA and UAE to chum it up with whatever new Islamist power is in the house and ensure they're playing ball.

3. Continue surveillance and international police and intelligence cooperation.

Taliban Wage Offensive Against Panjshir Rebel Stronghold, Heavy Casualties Reported

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Armand

SBminisguy
Great Idea… but WHO would support them? Err…

Everyone attacks the 'arbitrary lines', drawn on Maps, post WW1, when breaking up the 'Turk' Empire, but, what else were they going to do?
MUCH more pressing difficulties, post WW1.
So… leave Secular / Religious / Tribal Factions to 'sort things out' in an amicable fashion…
All Muslims, after all..
'West'… weren't bothered… until 'OIL'…

Look at the bigger picture – why is the US there in the first place? What national interest does it serve?

Again, by the time you are deployed … and being shot at it is too late to be concerned about … anything but survival. One of the best way to survive is kill those that are trying to kill you and your comrades … What don't some get about that ?

Pte Joe Smith from Hopkinsville, Kentucky going to Iraq or Somalia or Afghanistan or Mali is not going to make Hopkinsville Kentucky any safer from terrorism.

In fact it makes Hopkinsville, Kentucky less safer cause it:

a.) Perpetuates notion of US as anti-Islam.
b.) Forever wars create lots of refugees in the west some of whom are radicalised, one of whom might just be in Hopkinsville when he decides it's time to bring the war to the infidels.

I think this is something you have struggled to grapple with.

Hopkinsville, KY., it just up the road from Ft. Campbell, KY. As you know the home on the 101. I lived/posted there for about 3 years, '80-'83 … I disagree with much you posted here on this. You ever been to Hopkinsville/Clarksville, KY ? Some pretty bad hombres there. The 101, 5th [or 7th?] SF Grp, 160th SOAR …

Wrong place to try to make a terrorist attack.

1. Withdraw, let those people sort their own poop out.

2. If need be get your Islamist buddies in KSA and UAE to chum it up with whatever new Islamist power is in the house and ensure they're playing ball.

3. Continue surveillance and international police and intelligence cooperation.

That is the plan … now … And should be the way of doing "business" …

But who attacked who on 9/11 ? We all know the answer. Islamic inspired terrorists/jihadis … "Weren't the Amish!" …

Everyone attacks the 'arbitrary lines', drawn on Maps, post WW1, when breaking up the 'Turk' Empire, but, what else were they going to do?

Do what's been happening ever since then -- help the various tribes and factions part ways. They've been trying to do that by bullet and bayonet, before getting briefly forced together by an outside power that picks one faction and enforces unity before the whole thing falls apart and starts up again.

Saw today on the news firefights are going on with the Taliban and the former ANA/ANP called the NRF. I wish the NRF luck. Every Taliban, AQ, ISIS, etc. killed is a good thing.

Then we know the Talis/AQ are/will be fighting ISIS-K. I hope they bleed each other out.

IMO no nation should send A'stan any form of aid, until they clean up their act.

We know that won't happen anytime soon …

China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, etc., will be giving the Talis all type aid/support they want/need. And NGOs, e.g. DW/B, need to be very carful if they choose to operate in A'stan now.

Fight continues in the Panshear Valley with NRF vs. the Taliban. As well as else where in very small groups it has been reported.

Sadly I think this may be a "forlorn hope" … but at least some are fighting the Taliban/AQ beside ISIS-K. Have not heard much from them … yet …

Apparently 4/5th of Panjshir have fallen to Taliban including the main city Bazarak have fallen to Taliban. Two NPR military leaders have been confirmed as killed by NPR.

Surviving NPR have withdrawn to mountains.

NPR were making big claims of having wiped out thousands of Taliban fighters but footage of surrendering NPR fighters and yet more captured equipment seems to another story.

As I had said before … didn't think they'd last long. They are not only out numbered but have limited everything …

…tougher to form a resistance when the US LEFT a database with hundreds of thousands of detailed Biometric data files with in-depth personal profiles of people who had worked with or for the US, attended US-funded schools, did any consultation or contract work – even in service industry in or around a US base, not to mention allies and village leaders who had worked with the US. All left behind. A treasure trove of data that heralds a bloodbath.

The sheer murderous incompetence of US officials and contractors in Afghanistan is staggering. When does incompetence cross the line to malevolence?!?!?

Tech Review: Real story of Biometrics in Afghanistan
Posted on September 2, 2021
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"This is the real story of the Afghan biometric databases abandoned to the Taliban
By capturing 40 pieces of data per person—from iris scans and family links to their favorite fruit—a system meant to cut fraud in the Afghan security forces may actually aid the Taliban

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As of this morning, looks like former VP is in Tajikistan by now, and most of Pandjsher captured. Resistance was reporting heavy casualties inflicted on Taliban but I;m afraid it is for propaganda purposes…

I have heard reports of the GRU working with the Taliban. Even helping them to find US citizens. For interogation, execution, over for tea, etc. ?

Hmmm I guess along with the PRC/CCP and even Iran, and Putin, all will want a piece of the action. Reports have said the PRC/CCP has been mining copper from A'stan for a while already ?

Clancy couldn't have written it better …

Looks like your media prefers to be searching for evil foreigners to explain what has happened, and what will happen instead of checking who was benefitting from US presence in Afghanistan and getting nice profits from the enormous funds spent there.
I recall a nice story about bounties those nasty Russians were (very unlikely) paying for killing US soldiers…
Chinese have a lot of interests in Afghanistan, and you may check who is financing TAPI to get a clue who has a lot of benefits of being friendly with Taliban. Hint – not Russia, our only interest is that we don't want this decease spreading into Central Asia so we have to fight for our ODKB allies.
To prevent this we'll talk with them and will try to make a deal.

Legion, I'm sure the GRU will get much important information about US military secrets from aid workers and Afghan-Americans who moved back home to rebuild their lives.

Barin, you've hit the nail on the head. The clever old powers (be they Chinese or Russian or German or French) know the power of diplomacy and that it's never a binary choice.

Looks like your media prefers to be searching for evil foreigners

Our media generally goes for the headlines than getting to the truth. However, I have heard the GRU are there helping the Taliban. Note that I put a question mark after I typed that. However, that seems like that could happen, getting ready to make a deal with the Taliban now that those pesky Yanks are gone. If Putin has not already ? Well most Americans are gone anyway. But that is another story of the errors because of the USA's leadership.

I recall a nice story about bounties those nasty Russians were (very unlikely) paying for killing US soldiers…

No one believed that if you knew anything about the situation in A'stan, Putin-US relations. etc. It was a very poorly handled false rumor. But it got some to watch the news and hate the POTUS at that time, even more. If that was possible? Regardless I'm an old Cold War Warrior, I don't trust Putin, the GRU, etc. Old school … For all I know Barin you are former KBG or GRU !?!?!?! 😦😧😨😱🤯

Legion, I'm sure the GRU will get much important information about US military secrets from aid workers and Afghan-Americans who moved back home to rebuild their lives.

If the Russians[and Chinese] don't have those "secrets', etc., already. But I don't doubt the GRU have their people there. Probably before those pesky Americans left. Just like the CIA, etc., are probably still there and, many other places. But as I told Barin, I don't trust Putin, the GRU, etc.

ardo … you could even be former KGB, GRU, etc., now that I think about it ? All we are a faceless names and possible false bios here on TMP. OH NO !!!!! 😖😬

The clever old powers (be they Chinese or Russian or German or French) know the power of diplomacy and that it's never a binary choice.

The USA will have to wait for some with those "powers" again. Maybe in 2024 ? If there is anything left of the former USA.✝☠

But them sneaky Reds would like that wouldn't you … err … they … 😕😖