Schogun | 06 Aug 2021 1:03 p.m. PST |
Think kneeling sniper behind a tall wall. His pose makes him a smaller target to hit. But the pose could also mean he can't see over the wall to fire. Most skirmish rules give a kneeling figure two advantages -- a smaller target to hit AND the ability to fire without requiring any special action or modifier to stand up . What say you? |
Cerdic | 06 Aug 2021 1:11 p.m. PST |
The figure represents a real man or men. Real people can move into different poses…. |
John the OFM | 06 Aug 2021 1:31 p.m. PST |
If the figure is kneeling, he should be at a severe disadvantage while running. |
Col Durnford | 06 Aug 2021 1:41 p.m. PST |
And let's not even talk about the running speed of a prone figure. I like the idea that a figure is in the best possible cover regardless of pose. I, personally, do not like kneeling or prone figures and avoid buying them in the first place. |
jwebster | 06 Aug 2021 1:57 p.m. PST |
In my opinion, a dumb enough set of rules that thinks a figure's specific pose is important is an unfair advantage John |
nickinsomerset | 06 Aug 2021 1:59 p.m. PST |
Figure is behind a wall, a – to hit because the figure is assumed to be taking cover. Whatever the figures pose, Tally Ho! |
advocate | 06 Aug 2021 2:08 p.m. PST |
Assuming you don't mean the pose of the miniature, but the person represented… I have played rules where a smaller, kneeling target is harder to hit. And you may need to kneel in order to take cover behind a low wall. Kneeling behind a high wall would prevent firing, or being fired on. But I've never played a set of rules where a kneeling character is automatically able to fire (as compared to a standing character). Please name the guilty rules – I don't recognise them. |
Stryderg | 06 Aug 2021 3:37 p.m. PST |
Kneeling figures should get a bonus to hit due to them already being the in the proper pose for praying to the dice gods. |
jdpintex | 06 Aug 2021 4:42 p.m. PST |
|
Old Contemptible | 06 Aug 2021 6:07 p.m. PST |
You still have to have a LOS to the target. If the figure is behind something that blocks LOS then you can not fire at it. If you can see any part of the figure, then you can shoot at it. A kneeling figure doesn't require as much cover. That is the advantage it has. No need for a special rule because it is built into the game. This is why I was reluctant to get involved in skirmish WWII or most skirmish games. It is the minutia which some players and rules go to. |
John the OFM | 06 Aug 2021 6:12 p.m. PST |
Exactly. Gamers tend to get carried away with minutiae designing skirmish rules. Prime example is the SPI game "Sniper". You had to roll a good roll to not fall down the stairs. I once played, by invitation, a DnD game in New York. It took me a half hour to walk to my horse. Nope. |
No longer interested | 06 Aug 2021 8:32 p.m. PST |
John, I'd also be very pissed off should I had to walk half an hour to get to my horse, but bear in mind that barns in New York are scarce so better get a taxi for the next invitation. :) |
Striker | 06 Aug 2021 8:33 p.m. PST |
The pose of the actual miniature should be of no concern. |
No longer interested | 06 Aug 2021 8:39 p.m. PST |
I remember the ruleset battleground ww2, the figures could be stand-up or to the ground. Modifiers for cover and movement but they did not received modifiers for shooting. I do not recall them being cumbersome. |
Zephyr1 | 06 Aug 2021 8:41 p.m. PST |
"Does a kneeling pose give a figure an unfair advantage?" Sure, but it might be problematic in deep water… |
Martin Rapier | 06 Aug 2021 11:48 p.m. PST |
I can't say I ever played a set of rules where thie figure pose makes a blind bit of difference. The old WRG Infantry Action rules did suggest using three different models for each soldier (prone, kneeling and standing) to keep track of their posture though. |
deephorse | 07 Aug 2021 3:00 a.m. PST |
Most skirmish rules give a kneeling figure two advantages I haven't read "most skirmish rules", but the ones that I have make no reference to a model's pose whatsoever. Buy some different rules. |
Deucey | 07 Aug 2021 7:10 a.m. PST |
What rules are you playing where this makes a difference? |
Goober | 07 Aug 2021 7:48 a.m. PST |
I look forward to the fully articulated 15mm figure to use in my WW2 games. I'll need them for every nation, branch of service and uniform combination too (although I am willing to accept tiny uniform packs to dress the articulated figures. I can then choose any pose I like. |
Hydra Studios | 07 Aug 2021 8:12 a.m. PST |
In Firelock Games' "Blood and Valor" the rules say that a kneeling figure is considered 1" tall for purposes of targeting and line of sight. They do not give any specific advantage to a kneeling miniature. |
ChrisBrantley | 07 Aug 2021 9:23 a.m. PST |
My introduction to WWII skirmish gaming was with a homebrew set of rules that included a roll for hit location, including different consequences depending on where you got hit. An arm wound could be a graze and you could keep on fighting. A shot to the abdomen put you out of commission. The point is that you disregarded hits to parts of the body that weren't actually exposed. A target standing behind a waist high stone wall, for example, would only take a hit to the head, arms or chest. Or if the figure was kneeling behind the wall, maybe only the head and arms. One example of being able to simulate "taking cover" by going to one knee. |
Legion 4 | 07 Aug 2021 11:29 a.m. PST |
No … he should get a cover bonus like any other figure. Behind the wall. The figure is only a "token". He or she would change their position based on the terrain & situation. But for gaming purposes – K.I.S.S. |
DColtman | 07 Aug 2021 11:50 a.m. PST |
The kneeling army guys were always harder to bring down even with a well-aimed a rubber band. So yes, they have an advantage, particularly over the standing guys with wobbly bases holding their guns over their heads. Now the prone army guys – that's even worse! |
Andy ONeill | 08 Aug 2021 8:31 a.m. PST |
I would say most skirmish rules ignore miniature pose for this purpose. We use different miniatures for set up and moving where a crew served weapon takes time to set up and take down. Other than that the miniature indicates armament and rank. |
Striker | 09 Aug 2021 2:03 a.m. PST |
I read them long ago, but Face of Battle recommended having figures in standing, kneeling, and prone so the figure on the table would match what position they were in. Probably more for a WYSIWYG issue and reduction in paperwork than actual laser pointer-LOS stuff. I've got rules where terrain blocking the hit location takes the shot, but again the miniature pose is cosmetic. |
Lucius | 09 Aug 2021 3:15 a.m. PST |
I had a whole set of fully articulated WW2 figures. I called them, "G.I. Joes". |
Trajanus | 09 Aug 2021 4:42 a.m. PST |
Er, you know they are not real people, right? |
Legion 4 | 09 Aug 2021 12:07 p.m. PST |
Yes, that is what I was trying to get at … "The figure is only a "token". He or she would change their position based on the terrain & situation." … |