"Dardanelles Commission evidence" Topic
9 Posts
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Nine pound round | 07 Jul 2021 5:01 p.m. PST |
Does anyone know whether it has ever been published- or whether the British government has plans to release it, now that a century has passed? |
Legion 4 | 08 Jul 2021 4:00 p.m. PST |
I think they are hoping everyone forgot about it … |
Nine pound round | 08 Jul 2021 4:20 p.m. PST |
I always assumed that it was never published because the evidence in its totality might lead the public to draw a different set of conclusions. But now that everyone involved is dead, that hardly seems like a dangerous outcome. |
Blutarski | 09 Jul 2021 8:33 a.m. PST |
I wonder how important or revelatory that report might be at this late date. Few campaigns in modern history have been more minutely scrutinized and the evidence unearthed has really rendered an unassailable historical verdict – it was a complete and comprehensive debacle IMO, the most impressive achievement of the entire sad enterprise was the successful night evacuation of the landing forces from the Gallipoli peninsula. Everything else was hallmarked by over-confidence, incompetence, confusion, wishful thinking, shoestring planning and miscarried execution. The best that can be said is that the common soldiers both fought and endured their calvary with distinction and fortitude. Yes, my hair is on fire. But I have long regarded Gallipoli as an unforgivably gross waste of good men's lives. B
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Legion 4 | 09 Jul 2021 9:27 a.m. PST |
But now that everyone involved is dead, that hardly seems like a dangerous outcome. But are all their relatives dead too ? Could be a point to consider ?
The best that can be said is that the common soldiers both fought and endured their calvary with distinction and fortitude.Yes, my hair is on fire. But I have long regarded Gallipoli as an unforgivably gross waste of good men's lives. Agree on both points … Plus we can say the same about A'stan and a number of other places even today. |
Nine pound round | 09 Jul 2021 12:27 p.m. PST |
I don't expect it to necessarily change any conclusions, but I do think it will fill in some gaps in our understanding of what went wrong, and how, and why. The evidence is not a report per se, but written statements submitted for the record, and the transcripts of formal hearings, and the leakage of bits and pieces of it has given some new information to each rehashing of the Gallipoli story over the decades, even if it doesn't alter the larger verdict. I don't know whether this has value, but it does excite interest. There are a lot of fascinating details that explain the outcome that have taken decades to come out. One good example is Brigadier General Johnson's drinking on the climb to Chunuk Bair, which arguably contributed significantly to the outcome. His brigade major, Arthur Temperly, shared the story with Aspinall (the official historian) in the early 1930s, but I don't know that the story itself made it into print until Robert Rhodes James' history was published in 1965. Similarly, General Hammersley's psychological condition was politely cloaked in obscurity until Michael Hickey's book came out in the 1990s. A lot of the Gallipoli story is retailed even now in polite generalities: important and specific details are often completely absent, so that a lot of authors are reduced to repeating old research or prior conclusions. A good example: why was Braithwaite so disliked? I've read the same anecdotes about Hunter-Weston in volume after volume, but Braithwaite is still largely an enigma. But there are still some interesting mysteries out there! One that has bedeviled me for a couple of years is this: who told Lt Col Anthill that they had seen flags in the Turkish trenches? I have read several very comprehensive Australian treatments of the fighting at The Nek, and while they all agree that someone told him this, nobody ever ties a name to it. I have a theory, but no more. I don't know that I will ever get an answer, but it's a little surprising that such a crucial detail of one of the most notorious incidents in Australian history is still an unknown. And it's not just prurient interest in human error that's an issue. I think our understanding of, say, the condition of most of the Territorial divisions that went to Gallipoli is still evolving. People tend to focus on the Kitchener divisions, but many of the TF units had been divided to form new battalions and then stripped for cadres and refilled: this influenced decisions on their commitment and employment. The failure of the logistical system was almost dispositive itself, but again, it's usually reduced to recycled conclusions and a few fragmentary anecdotes. And as for the planning, the planner wrote the Official History- surely that deserves to be revisited? I could go on, but I won't because I'm not positive that my own interest in the topic doesn't approach the level of an obsession. But I do think, for as much as Gallipoli has been studied and written about, it's a shame that a rich source of period-era data as the evidence of that inquiry remains unpublished. It must be full of fascinating details. |
Blutarski | 10 Jul 2021 11:23 a.m. PST |
Hi Nine pound round, Thank you for your very cogent comments re the desirability of having the complete story, even if disclosure of hitherto "sequestered" details fails to alter the ultimate verdict. History exists not only to inform man as to WHAT happened in the past, but also WHY and HOW it happened. Without having the WHOLE story, one can never be sure of a properly nuanced appreciation of events. Dunno if you have looked into this site - link
B
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Zephyr1 | 13 Jul 2021 9:30 p.m. PST |
Wasn't there a unit of troops made up from the Royal Family's household/workers that 'disappeared' in the fighting? That might still be a tender nerve that some don't want touched… |
Nine pound round | 14 Jul 2021 8:57 a.m. PST |
That's been mentioned in several books and was the subject of a movie, so the cat's been out of the bag for a long time. I doubt it would have been discussed in front of the enquiry, because the bodies (and the resulting inferences about their fate) weren't determined until the British occupied the Peninsula as part of the postwar settlement, incidentally taking on the task of interring the large numbers of Commonwealth dead who had lain unburied for four years or more. |
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