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"Empress BAOR 1982 Kit Question" Topic


10 Posts

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590 hits since 23 Jun 2021
©1994-2021 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

hocklermp524 Jun 2021 12:44 p.m. PST

The excellent sculpts by Empress of BAOR 1982 have kit that is at hip level, some figures have a very bulky set of bags that look like the US Vietnam Era butt packs, others have smaller hip pouches and some obvious magazine pouches. Question I have is where are the canteens? Second question is where are the magazine pouches when the figures have large hip pouches?

hocklermp524 Jun 2021 12:44 p.m. PST

The excellent sculpts by Empress of BAOR 1982 have kit that is at hip level, some figures have a very bulky set of bags that look like the US Vietnam Era butt packs, others have smaller hip pouches and some obvious magazine pouches. Question I have is where are the canteens? Second question is where are the magazine pouches when the figures have large hip pouches?

John Armatys24 Jun 2021 3:17 p.m. PST

See page 8 of this pdf for a picture of 1958 pattern equipment laid out flat: PDF link

(from [Karkeeweb dot com link a brilliant resource for fans of British C20 equipment)

The water bottle was carried in the pouch marked "E"

John Armatys24 Jun 2021 5:42 p.m. PST

The first link above comes up as "forbidden"…

Instead got to this page link
and click on the picture labelled "Army Code 71061 Pamphlet No. 2 Fieldcraft (All Arms)"

hocklermp524 Jun 2021 6:44 p.m. PST

Thanks for the information and the pics of the kit laid out tell the tale. Still seems awkward to have all that kit around waist, hips, and buttocks. Anyone out there serve when this kit was in use?

TimeCast Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jun 2021 12:37 a.m. PST

The 58 pattern webbing was capable of being worn in a variety of ways. Most of he weight was carried on the hip with the shoulder straps (known as the yoke)taking the rest of the weight. Extra pouches were often added so the waist belt was a continuous row of pouches.

Some soldiers wore it without the shoulder straps, when it was referred to as "belt kit". Most units insisted on the yoke being fitted, and I preferred it as it helped support the weight.

The main problem was the awkward cape carrier (usually known as the "bum roll") which was worn clipped under the rear kidney pouches and which was supposed to carry the waterproof(ish) poncho. The carrier was also used to carry the soldiers NBC suit as well which made it very bulky. Soldiers used to adjust the webbing to sit high on the waist to keep the bum roll from banging against the buttocks. Another way of carrying it was to clip it so that it sat on top of the kidney pouches.

The magazine pouches were fitted with rings at the bottom which attached to the clips on the bum roll to secure everything. However pouches were frequently tied together via a cord which ran the full width of the webbing this held everything snugly together so the pouches did no bounce and rattle around when moving and allowed for the bumm roll to be carried on top of the kidney pouches (my preferred method of wearing it). I always used bungee cords for this as the elastic pulled everything tight.

Only problem was that clipping the bum roll on top of the kidney pouches made wearing the bergan rucks or 58 pattern large pack awkward, as it would not sit correctly with the bum roll in the way.

The Empress figures show the webbing being worn correctly as per the regulations for CEFO (Combat Equipment Fighting Order), even showing the strap for the respirator case being worn correctly over the shoulder and NOT attached to the webbing belt. This was so that the respirator could be carried by the soldier at all times, even when not wearing the webbing.

CEMO (Combat Equipment Marching Order) included the rucksack or large pack.

My only quibble with the Empress figures are that the webbing was actually quite bulky when fully packed whereas the figures are sculpted showing it how it appears in the training manuals but I can't reall fault them for that.

My main problem is the inclusion of the M79 grenade launcher figure.
In 27 years service I only ever came across three occaisions where the M79 was issued (and then only in small numbers) Belize where it was in service with the garrison infantry battalion for use in the jungle, Northern Ireland where it was issued in small numbers for use on border patrols, and with the UK Special Forces (who seemed to prefer the M203 in any case). Some sources claim it was used in the Falklands War however I have to admit that I did not see any of them being carried there.

The M79 was not issued in regular army units in BAOR or in the mainland UK. I have a number of Infantry training pamphlets from the 1970s and early 1980s which confirm it and the M79 was not taught in the infantry basic training of that time (training on it was given to the reciving troops when it was issued in the locations given above).

Hope this helps

Barrie
TimeCast

hocklermp525 Jun 2021 1:18 a.m. PST

Barrie…Huge help! Thank you very much. The M-79 puzzled me
too but I rather like having them in the support weapons mix. Again, thank you for the detailed information.

nickinsomerset25 Jun 2021 4:42 a.m. PST

Not forgetting numerous variations, I got rid of my Kidney Pouches using 4 UK water bottle pouches, a 44 pattern pouch and a US water bottle pouch. We also used to acquire a second bum roll pouch with one on top and one below the rear pouches.

Tally Ho!

David Brown25 Jun 2021 10:26 a.m. PST

Ah! The joy of 58 pattern webbing burns!!

DB

hocklermp525 Jun 2021 11:48 a.m. PST

Fascinating info. Many thanks!

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