Jeff Preston | 24 Jun 2021 5:38 a.m. PST |
Hi Folks! I wonder if anyone can help – which rules would you recommend for 15mm Wars of the Roses battles? I've been using DBA for all my battles pre-1485 since they were first published, but am ready to try something else for a different experience. I've already played a little with DBM, DBMM and Armati. I've got about 60 DBA elements (bases) for each army (total 120 elements). I am flexible but I will not be * rebasing * my figures. 😉 Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks Jeff |
Wackmole9 | 24 Jun 2021 5:48 a.m. PST |
Flower of Chivalry by Canadian wargames group |
nsolomon99 | 24 Jun 2021 5:48 a.m. PST |
Bloody Barons from Peter Pig works well for 15's. |
BillyNM | 24 Jun 2021 6:16 a.m. PST |
I use DBM for my very similar sized 15mm WotR armies but have converted it to use hexes which speeds up the game, and added Stratagems from a wargaming magazine article I use ‘To the Strongest' quite a bit for ancient battles; they do cover WotR but I haven't actually used them for WotR. I have also used ‘The Perfect Captain – A Coat of Steel' WotR rules (they were freely available online) which have an interesting rock-paper-scissors combat mechanism (but with more options) to make the combats more interesting. |
Eumelus | 24 Jun 2021 6:43 a.m. PST |
I'm enjoying "The Bloody Barons" quite a bit. It uses a grid system for movement so any scale/basing will work fine (I'm using 28mm figures, 12 per unit). Here's a link to a battle report that Martin posted early last year: PDF link |
Red3584 | 24 Jun 2021 7:08 a.m. PST |
Never Mind the Billhooks by Andy Callan, which were a freebie via Wargames Illustrated, are a great rule set and have sparked a real resurgence of WotR games. You'd have to find a method of recording casualties if you have multi-based figures but shouldn't be difficult. |
ColCampbell | 24 Jun 2021 7:39 a.m. PST |
As BillyNM suggested, I'd recommend "To the Strongest!" which is a square based game in which the actions of each unit is controlled by drawing playing cards. There are a number of gamers in the UK and some in the US who have been using these rules for games from Biblical times to the high medieval time, including the War of the Roses. I use these rules for early medieval. Just ran a game with two players per side, each controlling two commands. With a couple of exceptions we all caught back onto the rules very quickly and had a fun and sometimes nail-biting game. You can get the rules either from directly from Simon at bigredbatshop.co.uk or as a PDF from Wargame Vault link Jim |
DColtman | 24 Jun 2021 8:31 a.m. PST |
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MajorB | 24 Jun 2021 9:11 a.m. PST |
DBA v3.0 (and also the Big Battle variant of v3.0) works well for WOTR. |
Titchmonster | 24 Jun 2021 10:58 a.m. PST |
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Alcibiades | 24 Jun 2021 3:31 p.m. PST |
Test of Resolve are a set of rules designed specifically for the WotR. Having read through the rules and first scenario book I was intrigued. The other rules mentioned are all pretty generic and lack the period's flavour. I suspect these will become our go to set of rules for the period. |
Atheling | 25 Jun 2021 1:34 a.m. PST |
+1 for Test of Resolve. I haven't played them yet (Covid etc) but they read like they have a very good period feel. Just Add Water Painting & Wargaming Blog: justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com |
Jeff Preston | 25 Jun 2021 5:55 a.m. PST |
Whoa – many thanks to everyone for the excellent suggestions – a lot to look into there! I forgot – has anyone used (full or Basic) Impetus much for WOTR? |
Warspite1 | 25 Jun 2021 6:14 a.m. PST |
I have been threatening to get my own 'Bills, Bows and Bloodshed' published for quite some time. Sadly Covid got in the way so I shelved it until this year. Now Covid is STILL in the way! My rules are deliberately module based, 40mm DBA or 30mm Bloody Barons widths for 15mm figures, for example. The module width does not matter provided that the modules used are all the same size. Units are up to 12 modules which represents about 1000 to 1,200 men. I have the tee-shirts advertising BBB already printed, I also had the solid A2 and A3 advertising boards printed at a local sign-making firm. "Bills, Bows and Bloodshed, a fresh look at the old hack and slash" etc. A very professional look for the UK shows. However, due to the repeated cancellation of UK shows I have delayed the actual printing of the rules themselves. 28 pages so far includes 4 pages of livery jacket colours and a comprehensive army list. The rules are also extensively cross-referenced as I hate using rules which don't cross-ref! More news on this when it comes up. The tee-shirts look nice! Barry |
Colonel Bogey | 25 Jun 2021 8:12 a.m. PST |
Another vote for Bloody Barons – deceptively simple at one level but gives a great game: link |
DColtman | 25 Jun 2021 11:30 a.m. PST |
I did quite a bit of HYW using Impetus and liked it – I think it could capture the troop interactions of WOTR quite well. |
martin goddard | 26 Jun 2021 1:17 a.m. PST |
If you are in the UK there is a proposed Battle day of Bosworth. 15th August 2021. At this day there will be games of Bosworth using a different set of rules on each table. I believe you can join in too? All of the sets mentioned above will probably be played there. It is organised by the Society of Ancients and is held in Newbury UK. Bloody Barons will be there in 15mm. Maybe someone will do a report of the day and put it out for all to see/read? martin |
lionheartrjc | 26 Jun 2021 1:53 a.m. PST |
Join the Society of Ancients (only GBP 27.00). All the reports from the Battle Day are published in Slingshot (the Society's magazine that has been published every 2 months since September 1965). The Battle Day is open to non-members. More details on the website. soa.org.uk |
lionheartrjc | 26 Jun 2021 1:58 a.m. PST |
In terms of choice of ruleset I think it all depends upon what type of game you are looking for. How much character from the period do you want? A ruleset specific to the WotR period should give you more character than a generic ruleset. Also depends upon how many figures you want, full battle or a skirmish type set. There is no shortage of choice of rules. |
Jeff Preston | 05 Jul 2021 5:15 a.m. PST |
Thanks again to all who have most helpfully posted here. I am indeed in the UK and so the Battle day of Bosworth sounds like a good plan! I'm already a member of the Society of Ancients – and a splendid organization it is too. Good suggestion. How much period character? I want loads which is why I don't want to use something more general like my beloved DBA this time. And I want historical battles with plenty of figures. I have around 400 so it's a start. Chiefly, I am hoping to get information on rules that folks know well, having played them many times – and for which they can offer recommendations from personal experience. |
Dave Knight | 28 Jul 2021 2:09 p.m. PST |
I am one of the authors of Test of Resolve so must declare an interest at the start. If you are on Facebook look up our group. We have released scenarios covering the 16 major battles of the Wars. The rules are very much period specific and designed to reflect the fact that most battles came down to a bloody melee with the opposition nobility the primary target. |