MarbotsChasseurs | 22 Jun 2021 10:10 a.m. PST |
Hello everyone, I just wanted to post my most recent translation of a service record from a veteran NCO and later S.Lt of the 12e Legere named Jean-Martin Guicherd. Below is posted the original document from Base Leonore, my translation, and his file in the 2YB folders for the regiment.
Michael |
Frederick | 22 Jun 2021 4:59 p.m. PST |
Very neat! Brave chap – thanks for sharing |
SHaT1984 | 22 Jun 2021 7:11 p.m. PST |
Grat stuff! Surprising he didn't get an honour award for being first in the redoubt, and so long to be made Chevalier after capturing an officer. Again a vet of all the central campaigns. But I do think its a bit of an anochronysm translating Regimental Staff as "Board of Directors"- the twist of translation in modern times no doubt? cheers dave |
gboue2001 | 22 Jun 2021 11:49 p.m. PST |
Bonjour "Conseil d'administration du régiment" shoud be translated as Shat1984 proposes "regimental staff" maybe "regimental Board". But Michael french skill improves step by step :-)) From Paris GBoue |
SHaT1984 | 22 Jun 2021 11:58 p.m. PST |
Not being critical of Mike, just that translations tend to be modern language [interpretive] and not all relevant to the period. As I've said in the past, some things are better not converted at all. A lot stand alone by themselves. cheers |
Bernard1809 | 23 Jun 2021 1:01 a.m. PST |
Bonjour La deuxième fiche numérotée 150, tu l'as trouvée où? Cordialement Bernard PS: J'ai trouvé les prénoms de l'officier Lafontaine! |
MarbotsChasseurs | 23 Jun 2021 1:22 a.m. PST |
Dave, I do agree with you as I was unsure if I should use the literal translations of the term or as you state Regimental staff, which sounds better. The same occurs with chef which is chief but we know it means his leader or Colonel or deux coups de bayonnette which means bayonet blows but in English sounds better as two bayonet wounds or stabbed twice by a bayonet. The 12e Legere is an fascinating regiment with a lot of great material out there for those who can read French. Bernard, The file is 2YB 572. Congratulations on Lafontaine. Is Saint Hilaire's staff complete now?. Michael |
MarbotsChasseurs | 23 Jun 2021 9:30 a.m. PST |
Frederick and gboue2001, I appreciate the comments. My translation of French documents is slow but one baby step at a time. It is getting easier to understand words and phrases that are commonly used. Michael |
Bernard1809 | 23 Jun 2021 9:03 p.m. PST |
@MarbotsChasseurs As-tu le lien pour accéder au fichier 2YB 572? Je ne le trouve pas… Mon E-M du GD St-Hilaire est maintenant au complet. Bernard |
SHaT1984 | 24 Jun 2021 3:31 a.m. PST |
>>The 12e Legere is an fascinating regiment with a lot of great material out there for those who can read French. Yes Mike, certainly would be interested to see more. While the regiment elites formed part of the Reserve Grenadiers, not a lot gets exposed in detail about them; combined with the 15e Legere elite battalion- also which as we know probably contained 'chasseurs' apparently. [The precious timing of 'when' Voltigeur companies were both 'created' in name and formed in uniform, seems to have varied widely between administrations and regiments, no matter their 'direction' by higher command]. regards dave |
Gazzola | 24 Jun 2021 4:56 a.m. PST |
Great post. Keep them coming! |
MarbotsChasseurs | 24 Jun 2021 7:01 a.m. PST |
Thanks, everyone, I have a question for French speakers. It says s'est trouve au Siege de Mantua, which translates as he was found at the Siege of Mantua. It is uncommon to say he was found in English, but instead, he was at or in the Siege of Mantua. Is saying he was found a common term for describing something a person took part in? Dave, below are links to two French articles describing the history of the 12e Legere and the order book for Colonel Dulong in Spain, which details that the 12e Legere wore line infantry uniforms during their time in Spain when their uniforms ran out. Both articles are done by Jerome Croyet, who has some great research from the SHD and shares it on the Sehri forum and his Pinterest page. Dave, I am also attaching the inspection report of the 9e Battalion of the Grenadiers de la Reserve from the regimental history of the 12e Legere. This is the first link, and the next two are from Jerome Croyet's articles. link link link
Bernard, Le 2Yb 572 provient du SHD et pas de link. Mon gentil donateur anonyme a partagé le dossier avec moi. Michael |
SHaT1984 | 24 Jun 2021 3:28 p.m. PST |
>> It is uncommon to say he was found in English Quick reply, even if my French is w0rse than yours; It's 'idiomatic' usage- and happens quite a bit with us Brit-colonial English speakers actually:- - she found her feet in… - they found themselves in deep water (not at all meaning a flood) - found their place - etc.& So yes, being found soomewhere is to be 'at' or 'in' it. Trans;ation AI also can't do past tense very well I find, so they often 'pretend' evrything is present tense. I may have passed in ENglish, but I hated it! cheers dave |
SHaT1984 | 24 Jun 2021 4:57 p.m. PST |
@GBoue/ Mike "Conseil d'administration" – the term I couldn't get to hand when replying, yes, not staff per se, 'Regimental Administrative Council' much better term perhaps. A well organised and respected historical 'team' effort- puts modern day 'cross-functional' teams and managements jokes into place! Thanks for the links Mike- I should really spread my searches further. But I've turned off all my blockers and still get ->>> 403. That's an error. We're sorry, but you do not have access to this page. That's all we know.<< d |
Bernard1809 | 24 Jun 2021 9:41 p.m. PST |
s'est trouvé au Siege de Mantua = he was at the Siege of Mantua "Le 2Yb 572 provient du SHD et pas de link. Mon gentil donateur anonyme a partagé le dossier avec moi." OK! Merci. Bernard |
MarbotsChasseurs | 25 Jun 2021 5:48 a.m. PST |
Dave, I tried to upload the pdf files from my personal files, which is causing the error. Will try after work to get it to work. Also, looking at Guicherd's service record, he had to serve with the Grenadiers de la Reserve battalion as the 12e Legere was not at Austerlitz. I did find another officers record that states Grande Armee Grenadiers de la Reserve for an 13 and 14. |
SHaT1984 | 25 Jun 2021 4:44 p.m. PST |
No problem Mike, thanks. Yes of course- the 'regiment' was in Italy… cool to know- The '5th' Regiment as it is entitled, will unfortunately, or perhaps not, be the last I create- but the data piles up so may be most accurate when it does get done! cheers d |