"Will A US War Against China Or Russia Be A Short Or A Long" Topic

Winning Without War: Chinese Supremacy in Global Supply Chains

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Armand

Yep the Chinese figured out what made the west so strong and simply replicated it. And the stupid westerners enabled them so they could keep both wages and prices at home low.

You are correct … and seems the West just keeps getting stupider !

Glup!….

Armand

China Expands Its Landbased Nuclear Forces

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Armand

And the surprise is ? IIRC some in the US want us to downsize our nukes? Could be wrong … but it sounds like something some currently would advocate.

Along with cutting the Military's budget, by 10%. As if we have no more threats running around out there.

China's Military Is Beset With Problems

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Armand

New Submarine, Frigate, Or Fighter? The U.S. Navy Can Choose Only One

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Armand

Update … it appears that the US Military budget will be increased by 2.7% and the VA 10%. I hope that report is true …

Will The Next Major War Start Because Of Taiwan?

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Armand

Is China Operating A Black Site In Dubai?

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Armand

China's New Type-039C Stealth Submarine: This Grainy Photo Says It All

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Armand

Just think what would happen to China if they unleashed a bio weapon on the world that killed millions and destroyed economies. Oh never mind, they did and we did nothing.

Has China Created A Sonic Supergun And Are They Using It Against U.S. Embassies?

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Armand

THE REAL FAILURE IS PAKISTAN

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Armand

The absolute fiasco of the US withdrawal from Afghanistan makes a conflict more likely, not less likely. Adversaries will believe that US leadership is so weak and incompetent that they do not have the willpower or ability to protect a minor US ally/puppet government the US had spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives to create, and couldn't even pull off a clean retreat without bungling it completely.

So if the US can't even do that in a sideshow conflict, how can the US be expected to respond decisively if China tests the waters by taking the Senkaku Islands – which they claim is unlawfully controlled by Japan and should be reinstated under Chinese authority as the Diaoyu Islands? What if they go for the whole enchilada and move on Taiwan while flexing all their asynchronous power assets?

Weakness invites aggression, which invites war. I mean, come on -- why did we have the Korean War? The US government signaled they didn't care about South Korea -- so North Korea went for it. Why did we have the Gulf War? Because the US government signaled they didn't care about how Iraq and Kuwait resolved their disputes, so Saddam said game on!

This is not rocket science. It is predictable human nature, borne out by millennia of human history.

HERE'S WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA'S NEW STEALTH FIGHTER

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RUSSIA'S PAK DA STEALTH BOMBER IS A BIG, POWERFUL PAPER PLANE

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Armand

Well if this is in the media. And true, our Intel/military already know all this, and more.

China is pushing Russia out of its traditional sphere of influence in Central Asia. China is building its "Silk Road" to Europe bypassing Russia. China is building an icebreaker fleet and this is also a claim to the Russian sphere of influence. China is actively engaged in espionage on Russian territory. China is trying to oust Russia from its traditional arms markets.
There are many contradictions between Russia and China.

Yep, which the Democrats prevented Trump from leveraging with their now proven false Trump-Russia collusion narrative. Can the US get past the damage inflicted on global policy because of domestic political power games? Dunno.

Those Democrats again! What will they think up next?

U.S. Troops Deployed To Foreign Countries Since 1950

Armand

Well yeah … anyone who studies US history after WWII would know this. And yes, in retrospect some of those deployments were in error.

We Now Know How Russia Would ‘Fight' A Shadow War Against America

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Armand

That should be no surprise. Putin and his cronies still believe they are in a cold war with the USA, NATO, etc.

You just wait and see how China will beat you in the game of capitalism. Years before it was a US thing to run a nation, not able to pay back its credits, now China learned to do this too.

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That is happening now … with some of those in charge of the USA wants to become to a "welfare state" … 🖐💸💰

The Nuclear Balance Is Changing—and Not For The Better

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Armand

Oh well … there goes the neighborhood. But the USA will be Green before anyone else !!! So …

Russia and China are Already Winning the Nuclear Arms Race

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Armand

Yes … but are they going Green ? Do they have Tree equity ? Come on man! Don't you know what is really important man !?!?!?

This could change things…

Shortages, Inflation, And Supply Chain Breakdowns Are Blowing The World's Economy Off Course

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Armand

The Former Guy told us he had fixed our military and it was the greatest on earth. But from this conversation it seems we fell apart quickly after he left and are now going to be unable to hold off the Chinese and Russians, whose cunning plans we seem to know a great deal about.

I think I have heard that we have the largest, most advanced, most expensive military on earth. Not sure, because they don't tell us everything they are doing. I remain confident and proud of our capability against these particular enemies, even though I have no real access to any inside information on them or us. We are good at this and they know it.

But my guess is that our opponents will not waste their time fighting us. They can tune in to our cable news anytime and see that we are our own enemies, fighting each other with an intensity that works great for them. All they have to do is wait and watch us beat ourselves.

Interesting variant of the classis "Thucydides Trap," part of Hegemonic Stability Theory which posits that Great Power conflicts are sparked by a rising hegemonic power seeking to overtake an aging hegemon and emerge as the dominant power.

This article describes the "Peak Power" trap as a possibility -- that China is actually is really bad shape and it may take big gambles before its decline becomes pronounced.

China Is a Declining Power—and That's the Problem
The United States needs to prepare for a major war, not because its rival is rising but because of the opposite.

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Are the actions being taken by the current POTUS regime be aimed at a "decline together" strategy to cause deliberate damage to the US reduce the impact of a Great Power conflict? This writer at the South China Post has some thought on this "decline together" concept.

Suppose both China and the US are in decline …
There is plenty of data out there that would paint a pretty grim picture of both countries; and coupled with their belligerence, they are, together, the real problem for the rest of the world

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I think the Current guy is way too old school to even think this and is profoundly patriotic no matter how we feel about the first 8 months. Deliberate damage? Really?
This is from the South China Post, I realize, but I doubt we are in a time of such sudden declining military power that we would consider this line of policy, which would be seen as treasonous by most of us, And if China is in decline, it must be a secret.

I agree with this theory of the rise and fall of dominant states, and there is some pushing around going on, but the global economy, pandemic, supply chain, technology, cost of military, and rampant nationalist movements in otherwise stable nations leaves things uncertain for now. Except my faith in the US military. And my belief that we have met the enemy and it is us.

Except my faith in the US military. And my belief that we have met the enemy and it is us.

Bingo !!!!!

I think the Current guy is way too old school to even think this and is profoundly patriotic no matter how we feel about the first 8 months. Deliberate damage? Really?

The current guy is not in charge. He's a meat puppet front for the first American Oligarchy.

I don't think he is connected to the right wing family who own major media outlets, including a propagandized cable news network which funneled employees into government jobs to work with another family running the Executive branch.

On the other side, things are less obvious, but I agree. However, having a moderate in the WH must be frustrating for all the carnivores.

I don't think he is connected to the right wing family who own major media outlets,

Oh? Owns the Establishment Media complex of NYTLATCSTCNNCBSMSNBCABCNPRWAPOTWITTERFBYOUTUBEGOOGLE does he? And "moderate" does not describe the left-end asrshattery policies being pushed out by this regime, or the people who populate it.

Very few people in this Admin's cabinet or senior staff are Biden's people -- the majority is from the Obama admin. Many of the senior positions are filled by hard leftists, like the environmental terrorist now in charge of BLM. Or the new nominee for the Comptroller of the Treasury, Saule Omarovara who studied at Moscow University during the waning days of the USSR on Lenin Personal Academic Scholarship, has written fondly of the Soviet system and has proposed in the past to further centralize banking power in the hands of the US Government, "migrate" ALL personal savings and checking accounts away from the current banking system over to the Fed, give the Fed power to approve Credit lines, and move away from cash to an all digital currency economy. This would effectively end independent banking and personal economic choice in the US and massively empower the State over the citizen.

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There is nothing moderate about the constitutional violations, centralization of power, and other destructive and divisive policies of this power elite -- while they also rake in the cash from their positions.

And there's a reason Sleepy Joe has to go rest up for days at a time after a public appearance at his Delaware mansion – he needs to recover from the meds they pump him up with, and as a private residence there's no legal requirement to keep a public visitor's log.

Based on this, I certainly understand how you feel. But I am not seeing it. The previous administration was not a problem here? As for the Delaware "mansion" remarks, not my thing.

i still do not agree that this or any other president would deliberately reduce our military and economic power as part of a strategic global plan. Nor would any presidential advisor.

As I said, I think potential adversaries have been happy for the last few years to watch us take out ourselves. If they are patient, they will not need to expend blood and treasure as we divide and wither away on our own. I hope this does not continue, but I can't find common ground in your post. Likely you can find none in mine. China plays a very long game.

One thing that has become clear to me in the past year or so. The USA has an "elite class", mostly in gov't, big business, entertainment, media, and the very, very, rich. This is not what America was supposed to be about. They run the nation regardless of what "We the people" say/vote. They are the minority … at the top. They feed us BS just to keep the "mouth breathers" content. E.g. Rome's Bread & Circuses. 🍞🎪

We are the "great unwashed", pawns, expendable, etc. They don't live in our world. They are like the royalty of old. Kings, Queens, Barons, Dukes, etc. Again just what our Founding Fathers were trying to void …

i still do not agree that this or any other president would deliberately reduce our military and economic power as part of a strategic global plan.

Carter did. Obama acted on the premise that US power was a global problem, his first action as POTUS was to go on a global apology tour, he cut US defense spending, he unilaterally reduced the US nuclear deterrent arsenal by 10%, and joined many international treaty regimes that restricted the exercise of US power and influence. He did start new wars though, didn't he? He topped Khadaffi in Libya, sparking the Libyan civil war and fueled the civil war in Syria, he also toppled Mubarak in Egypt leading to a very brief civil conflict that saw the Muslim Brotherhood that took over toppled in turn. In each case note that it was to remove a secular despot (even a US ally or US neutral one) from power in favor of Islamists, as if letting them rise against US proxies and allies would reduce conflict. Oh, and remember Obama's open hot mic promise to the Russians on "flexibility" on missile defenses in Poland after his 2012 election? He cancelled US defense projects with Poland, didn't he?

As I said, I think potential adversaries have been happy for the last few years to watch us take out ourselves. If they are patient, they will not need to expend blood and treasure as we divide and wither away on our own. I hope this does not continue, but I can't find common ground in your post. Likely you can find none in mine. China plays a very long game.

Our adversaries are happy indeed. The CCP and Russia have been pumping influence money into US politics and society, happy indeed to aid the rise of extremism to tear at the foundations of the US. Plenty of Establishment hacks and would be Oligarchs are willing to take their cash (like the Biden and Clinton families). There's a reason the prior POTUS tried to oust the CCP-backed Confucius Institutes and block CCP investment in US energy and communications sectors (reversed by the current regime), and try to reverse CCP influence in universities and society. They have been spreading lots of cash in a sophisticated Soviet-style influence campaign to undermine the US and the West, and are trying to sell us the rope we'll hang ourselves with. We seem to by buying so far…

And I dunno about this "China plays the long game" stuff. Seems like a stereotype and an excuse. At most you can say the "long game" has been played for about 20 years, with a rope-a-dope strategy to lure greedy western capitalists into the China market, suck 'em dry of IP and expertise and then replace them with Chinese versions.

The CCP has only been in charge since 1949, and their "long game" under Mao led to mass starvation, death and poverty. Then the reformers opened up Chinese society and economy by essentially morphing from Communism to Fascism, leading to an economic boom. When the boom got big enough, they started getting power ambitions until now they are ruled by a charismatic dictator. This dictator had reversed course on the westernism and relative economic openness of the prior regimes that led to China's massive economic boom. He wants to take the Boom into hard global power and his over reaching policies have slowly been hardening opposition to China. His policies won't survive past his time in power.

Legion4 +1

SB – I agree! But I understand it better once you offload some of the partisan rhetoric. There are two sides to the story of our decline. I am a moderate and we are slow. But I also cannot ignore the previous 4 years of apolitical self interest as policy. And the Bush years are not our glory days. Slow but not blind. My opinion. You have given us yours.

Legion is absolutely right. And the transfer of wealth continued right through the pandemic. Our tax policies are written and run by the oligarchs. Trillions gone to an elite minority who buy the people they need. They do not care anything about politics – their minions have worked at the Treasury Department in every administration writing tax loopholes for decades.

As for China – the "long game" is not some myth or cultural stereotype. Other countries do it as well, including us.

I agree!

Chinese Military Deploy War-Fighting Tools Into Orbit To Dominate Space

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China Boasts That Its New Unmanned Combat Drone Will Evade Enemy Air Defenses

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Chinese Navy H-6J bomber aircraft with YJ-12 anti-ship missiles is a threat to US Navy ships

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Armand

Russian Warship Chases U.S. Navy Destroyer Away From Its Waters (Video)

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Armand

Legion is absolutely right. And the transfer of wealth continued right through the pandemic. Our tax policies are written and run by the oligarchs. Trillions gone to an elite minority who buy the people they need.

Sad but true … the USA is run by these corrupt self serving elites. They are small in number. But they are running the show. And not for the masses but their own good …

RAND Report: Combined Russian And Chinese Military Power Will Approach, But Not Exceed US

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Armand

Again … no surprise … the current US leadership has other priorities than the US military being combat ready and the Threat.

Chinese And Russian Fleet Jointly Sail Through The Japan Strait

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Guam: A Critical Line of Defense—Threats and Means to Deter and Defend

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Armand