"French Pikemens armor at Rocroi?" Topic

Hey Chaps, I'm wondering if anyone knows what amount of armor, if any, my French Pikemen should wear at Rocroi.

Thanks for any help.

Hey Chaps, I'm wondering if anyone knows what amount of armor, if any, my French Pikemen should wear at Rocroi.

Thanks for any help.

Might give you some ideas, but mostly because it's awesome:
YouTube link

Thnx Monkey, I've seen that one a few times but wasn't sure how historical it is.

The equipment in Alastriste looks pretty good to me. The main question would be how many of the pikemen – which were at the low end of the social rank among soldiers of these days – could afford armor and helmet.
A well equipped unit would probably look not unlike the unit in the movie – though actual push of pikes were pretty rare at this time, especially for the German battlefields.

I just dug out Stephane Thions "French Armies of the Thirty Years War", and he mentions that a cuirass was standard, with the better going to the elite and officers, and that soldiers had the habit to "lighten their burden" on campaign by replacing the cuirass by a buff coat.

BTW: 1898miniaturas has a fine line of 28mm Spaniards for the era.

Thanks Puster! Most helpful!

the French pike wore less armor generally than the imperials. Pike armor declined in usage , so the later the battle , the less the armor. A battle in 1630 would have more armor used than one in 1640,for both mounted and foot.
I would have to disagree with Puster slightly since pikemen
were paid twice what other infantry were paid for most the TYW. As an aside , some of the French infantry units were all musketeers at Rocroi.

Hey Mildbill, I've seen one written account that said the French had Commanded Shot units placed between their Cavalry Units in the front line.

I can't find any however in any OOBs or marked on any maps. Do you have further information as to how many were fielded at Rocroi? Thanks.

pikemen were paid twice what other infantry were paid for most the TYW

Indeed? Thats new to me. Perhaps pay varied.

Afaik, double pay by tradition was reserved for front rankers and other specialist – the former probably did not discard their armor so lightly and used part of their pay to hire a boy or wife to care for and carry their stuff.

In the Imperial folklore "von der Pike an" says that to learn something really you have to start with the pike, and at least on earlier times pikemen were paid less then arquebus. The usage of an arquebus took some 140 steps, while the saying was that the pike could be learned in a week.
No idea how that translates upon the French army, however, and note that the TYW saw more then a dozen German and Imperial armies with varying habits.

On another note: Thion mentions that NEW regiments had the habit of having more musketeers in their ranks (60:40 and more), while older had more pikres. I have not detected any reasoning for this – be it because musketeers had the habit of dying, that replacements were put into pikes or wether the composition just had changed without adjusting old units. He says, however, that the original ideal (~1620) was 50:50 which was rarely achieved and changed towards muskets.

BTW: The Simplicissimus from Grimmelshausen, an contemporary author who however lived out the war without participating, said in a remarkable passage that regarding war whoever kills a pikeman kills an innocent, as pikemen never actually killed somebody.
link

@Uesugi Kenshin Armour was predicated on edicts from the Cardinal and court, however, many in the French forces would often discard armour for a buff jacket / coat or nothing at all. The helmet remained in use but even that was falling out of flavour. The French were famous(?/!) for wearing wide brimmed hats with plenty of feathers (often white), and were noted for wearing silks and ribbons often in white or light blue and were also noted for wearing metal wide brimmed hats.

However, the Swiss units were an unique case. They were noted as being the most heavily armed and it was said one could be forgiven for thinking they had attacked the front of the rear of a swiss unit for their rear were as armoured as their front. The swiss were noted to have thigh tassets, front and rear breastplate and helmet.

Thanks Maximus!

You're welcome @Uesugi Kenshin and if you need any more info please do not hesitate to ask. :)