Gorgrat | 09 Jun 2021 11:13 p.m. PST |
Been out of the hobby for years. Used to have a large collection of 15mm Napoleonics, 25mm fantasy, some 40k and some 25mm English Civil War. All of these are long gone. I'd like to get into it again without expending too much time or effort. What do you suggest? Friends locally suggest clickies on the after market, but that is limited to fantasy, supers, and kinda seems like a dying thing. Also, no historical options that I know of other than World War II. What other options are available? I've seen 2mm, 6mm and paper flats all done at various conventions. They seem like minority interests, but, if I limit myself from the word go, it stands to reason I can't have everything. Here again, I guess I'm asking for minimal investments in time and money, but I don't want half inch counters in stacks, which also seem to be doing a resurgence, based on what I saw in the local game shop. I also want colorful and eye catching What would you suggest? |
Editor in Chief Bill | 09 Jun 2021 11:25 p.m. PST |
Wargame Vault and other sources have free downloadable paper minis – some that look like photos of bases of minis, others that fold. I think it's Chris Hahn (?) who has written many recent articles for Slingshot magazine – he plays Ancients entirely with counters that he prints out himself. Another alternative is to pick a topic that doesn't need a lot of minis. Ironclads are easy to paint. Old West gunfights with a handful of figures. Pulp adventures. Superheroes. Any skirmish-level game. Aeronef. Some people enjoy gaming with plastic soldiers, the kind you buy at the cheap stores. Or with the more expensive pre-painted figures. Or with smaller action figures. Many consider small scales to be easier to paint. Consider 6mm or 3mm scale. Look at Black Powder Epic ACW plastics. Lots available in 10mm and 12mm too. Or go with armies that are easy to paint in mass. Zombies, skeletons, ACW. |
parrskool | 09 Jun 2021 11:27 p.m. PST |
….. if you don't mind flats: WoFun plexiglass miniatures come ready painted, and pre cut bases available. Two scales and several periods. Try WoFun Games…. they are the Paper figures you mention only on perspex and ready to just press out. |
Martin Rapier | 09 Jun 2021 11:51 p.m. PST |
I'm a big fan of plastic figures, there are huge ranges available now. They are cheap, but obviously need painting, so that takes some time and effort. For soft plastics, plastic soldier review is your friend plasticsoldierreview.com I'm not so keen on the new fiddly hard plastic figures you have stick together, but there are lots of those if that floats your boat. The other obvious choice is 6mm, they have been cheap and quick to paint since the 1970s. Less cheap but even quicker is second hand stuff off ebay or whatever, but you'll need to fill in any gaps. What periods are you interested in? |
Prince Rupert of the Rhine | 09 Jun 2021 11:54 p.m. PST |
That's quite a tricky ask. Normally you can save yourself time by buying second hand painted or using a painting service but that normally costs you cash. You can often save cash by investing a lot of time and effort and scratch building and painting your own minis. Minimal cost and time doesn't leave you to many options. I suppose you try something like The Perry twins travel battle 2 armies,all the terrain and rules for £50.00 GBP Painting is optional and given the small size of the men not to hard if you decide you want to paint them link |
BillyNM | 09 Jun 2021 11:58 p.m. PST |
The easiest way is to find a club you can join and play with others 'til you decide what you want to acquire? |
Prince Rupert of the Rhine | 10 Jun 2021 1:10 a.m. PST |
Irregular miniatures 2mm battle packs are cheap. Rules and two armies (you can chose from several eras) for less than £20.00 GBP You'd still have paint( how hard can 2mm be?) them and find some scenery though. link |
robert piepenbrink | 10 Jun 2021 2:50 a.m. PST |
Agree with most of the above. In sane years, you could try for something in the flea markets. Buying new, the cheapest options are paper, plastic and the smaller scales. I think Prince Rupert has a point with 2mm and Irregular sells terrain, but I usually double the "battle packs" and base them for visibility and ease of handling. For WWII, spray paint and wash in different colors for each side would about to it. 6mm as in Baccus or Adler is a more popular and visible option. If you're trying to minimize prep time, WWII and ACW are both good options, being less finicky than, say, Napoleonics or SYW, and easier to tell the sides apart than ECW. Whatever you choose, buy both sides. Nothing sadder than a wargamer with one army trying to find an opponent. |
20thmaine | 10 Jun 2021 3:05 a.m. PST |
A good balance could be paper figures so that you can get going right now and then 1/72nd plastics. HaT have every napoleonic unit you could ever want. And a lot more that you'll never want as well! Plastic Soldier Review as Martin Rapier suggests is your friend for getting a list together: except they don't cover fantasy figures. There are so many 1/72nd fantasy figures these days. If someone had told me when I started that I would one day be able to buy a dozen or more different boxes of orcs (goblins, orcs, half orcs, orcs on wargs, orc artillery….), two boxes of Balrogs, elves, dwarves and humans by the bucket load, centaurs, minotaurs, Anubis Egyptians, zombies/zombie hunters – then I wouldn't have believed them. Don't get them from ebay or Amazon, they are wildly overpriced try an international model shop like Hannants. |
mrwigglesworth | 10 Jun 2021 3:39 a.m. PST |
Mantic two player starter set for warpath $65 USD link Mantic two player starter set for kings of war $85. USD link |
martin goddard | 10 Jun 2021 3:46 a.m. PST |
If you attend a club and state your interest they will probably give you enough figures for most of an army. We do this at our club because wargamers tend to have so much stuff they don't use. The only consideration is that you would be expected to get on and use/paint it. Commitment is a highly valued and rare attribute. martin
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FusilierDan | 10 Jun 2021 4:40 a.m. PST |
Try a lower level game in a period you like. The Rampant series from Osprey covers many periods and you need about 24-60 figures for a force. Bolt Action or Chain of Command require about 50 figures a side for a game. Skirmish level of Napoleonic's or ECW could be done with about a dozen figures per side. You'll need a bit more terrain. Another option would be The Portable Wargame. Low figure count limited table size. |
GamesPoet | 10 Jun 2021 5:52 a.m. PST |
There are so many options. The first question could be … what do you want to do? |
HMS Exeter | 10 Jun 2021 6:01 a.m. PST |
I think you're attacking the problem the wrong way round, starting with economy as the first consideration. You could well find yourself the proud owner of an economical army which, once arrayed on a table, is a disappointment. First, I'd consult with your game group, if you have one reasonably close, to see what they are playing. Sit in on some of their games to see if any of it stirs your interest. That could settle many of your questions. Failing that, begin by deciding on a scale. Aesthetically, certain scales will be more appealing than others. For me 40mm are beautiful, but strike me as towering giants on a game table. I prefer 25mm and 15mm, but I have always considered 20mm to be an unappealing "niche" scale. Go figure. For me, 285 and smaller are just too small. What's your preference? Then pick a period. Focus on 1 at first. Look at which manufacturers cater to that scale and period. Consider what figure material you're comfy with. Lead is durable, holds paint well, but can be pricey. Hard plastic holds paint well, and is economical, but can be fragile. Soft plastic are durable and inexpensive, but require some specialized skills to get them to hold paint. Life is nothing but trade offs. Now comes a toughie. The rules. Skirmish rules usually require many fewer figures, but aren't for everyone. Post an inquiry in here for rules advise. "What rules do you all prefer for 15mm Napoleonics?" Then see if your established preferences can be accommodated within your budget comfort zone. It well may be infeasible, in which case, back to the drawing board. Don't rely on ebay and flea markets to meet your needs. They can be useful for the odd figs or group, but you'll be forever trying to flesh out an army that way. Focus on established vendors. You can get complete painted armies in flea markets, but they probably will be pricey. Be aware that naval wargaming is sort of a red headed step child in gaming. Many gamers aren't interested. But, at least, the scenics are easy. Bonne chance. |
Major Mike | 10 Jun 2021 6:29 a.m. PST |
Look to the Junior General Website. Many scenarios with game rules that cover the timeline spectrum. And, for most of the scenarios/game rules there are paper soldiers available on the same site. 45.40.183.63 |
Sgt Slag | 10 Jun 2021 6:33 a.m. PST |
If you want speed in figure prep, and as little monetary investment as possible, buy yourself some Army Men figures and vehicles. Seriously. For painting, they cannot be beat: paint only the bits which differ from the plastic's color; apply The Dip Technique; base on 2-inch MDF squares, using Hot Glue; paint the MDF base with 3-colors of sand mixture, in mottled patterns. Take a look at some examples: Infantryman1; Infantryman2; CombatEngineer1. Game on! I do simple block painting, plus The Dip Technique: I can paint 40 figures in around 40 minutes! At arm's length, they look decent; with colored sand on the bases, they look even better. I apply similar painting to the vehicles (selecting only the bits that differ from the plastic's main color -- amazingly fast as there is so little that is different…). Or, you can forego painting them altogether -- just basing them will dress them up nicely. Here are some photo's from my last, huge game: BattleScene1; BattleScene2 (note the headlights/Turn Signals on the overturned Truck, facing the camera -- about the only thing needing paint on the entire Truck…); BattleScene3; Massive Armies being sorted for the battle, 20-foot by 30-foot table ready for war. Gaming with Army Men is an almost universal childhood fantasy for males who grew up with them in their toy chest. Living out that fantasy is a blast… The financial investment in building these armies is a pittance, compared to traditional armies of gaming miniatures; painting is minimal -- and fast! You are not limited to periods other than WW II to modern; you can create your own scenarios, with/without historical battles to mimic/refight. You can use commercial rules, or make up your own. You can make terrain rather easily, if you have access to a laser cutter (MDF sheets cut into building walls), and a color printer (sign faces pulled from the Internet; apply to MDF cut-out's, base, and deploy!). You have complete freedom to game as you want with them. For very little investment of time, money, and effort. Cheers! |
Thresher01 | 10 Jun 2021 9:07 a.m. PST |
Skirmish games of your choosing and desired scale(s). 1/285th – 1/300th scale microarmor. |
MajorB | 10 Jun 2021 9:18 a.m. PST |
Soft plastic are durable and inexpensive, but require some specialized skills to get them to hold paint. I've never had a problem painting soft plastic miniatures and I have hundreds (thousands?) of them. No special skills required. |
robert piepenbrink | 10 Jun 2021 10:25 a.m. PST |
Gorgrat, I think GP and Exeter have excellent points. Give us a period and a command level you enjoy, and it will be much easier to give you options. Actually, give us a period, a command level and what you're prepared to invest in money and time. I've seen a certain amount of variance over the years about what counts as "too much time and effort." |
Thresher01 | 10 Jun 2021 6:47 p.m. PST |
Spaceship and spacefighter gaming, especially with free rules available, and if you avoid those really, REALLY expensive, prepainted, collectible minis. You can find spacefighters for about $1.00 USD a pop, or so, if you look – Studio Bergstrom offers them. |
Bobgnar | 10 Jun 2021 9:31 p.m. PST |
Mega dittos to parrskool on WoFun. A dozen periods, already painted, 15m or 28mm. I got a bunch for my grandson and he loves them. wofun-games.com/blog?page=1 |
UshCha | 11 Jun 2021 1:17 a.m. PST |
I mostly agree, paper figure or even unpainted platic. Painting is OK but its not the gamingt bit. If you like painting fine, if not, don't bother, lets face it to gamers like me its a compromise, paint of play, actually no compromise, play. If you are not playing solo then I have to agree see what the local club is like and whatt they play. You do need rules and unless other folk are using free rules than that is an unaviodable cost. |
khanscom | 11 Jun 2021 7:53 a.m. PST |
Without an indication of a preferred period, I'd suggest: 1/72 plastic Medievals using a simple skirmish combat system like "Chainmail" man-to-man or 1 Ed. D&D. Lots of great options by Zvezda or Italeri, e.g., or generic space battles with (free) "Red Chicken Rising" rules; scratchbuild your ships out of all sorts of scraps and bitz, or 1/72 plastic WWII skirmishing with basic rules like "Fast Rules" (now being republished); lots of infantry choices, although vehicles can be a little pricey (and time-consuming) if using the model kits. You can sometimes find suitable vehicles in the diecast toy lines at good prices. |
blacksmith | 11 Jun 2021 10:45 a.m. PST |
If you want to play with other people you need 28mm miniatures, being plastic cheaper than metal. If you want to play solo I'd choose 1/72 plastics for historics and fantasy as well. Check Plastic Soldier Review. For solo games I suggest you Two Hour Wargames and Nordic Weasel. For games with more people what they are using. |
Gorgrat | 11 Jun 2021 11:33 a.m. PST |
Wow. First off, thanks all for so many replies so quickly. Seems like a friendly place with a helpful community. Second, my apologies for the delayed response. I posted this on my first day as a member, which, I guess is against the rules. The mods were kind enough to let it through, though I couldn't reply until now. Again, mea culpa. As to my heart's desire… I love most periods. Really, the few eras that I DON'T like are easier to list than the ones that I do. Vietnam is no fun for me, as I lost relatives there. Star Wars has been done to death, though I enjoy most other science fiction gaming. I love historical gaming in almost all periods, and high fantasy. ALL OF THE SUGGESTIONS MADE ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED AND RESPECTED. At the moment I'm leaning towards paper flats, because of something a friend said as we were having lunch at Chipotle. I was bringing up my woes, and he (also a minis gamer, and one not stupid enough to sell off all his stuff) said I should see it as an opportunity to play Chitin I. "How's that?" I asked. "You remember. The old Metagaming boardgame with the alien insect hives fighting it out?" "Sure." I responded, though not certain what he was driving at. "Remember how we used to live playing it back in the 80's? And you used to say you wished you could play it in miniature? Well, with a set of paper minis you could. Just surf the web for some fantasy insects, and with a little time you could make that happen." I brightened up at this, but replied, "Yeah. I can see that" (already thinking it could be alot if fun just finding the illustrations, "but flats don't have many devotees." He shrugs."? "You're the one who said you wanted to limit the time and money. This way, you could have all of the eclectic armies you ever wanted" -Now I'm starting to salivate- and you just make sure, as the guys on TMP seem to be saying, that you bring enough troops for all sides of the game." This has me 55% sold, though I've never collected paper figures before, and I'm sure I'll have some fits and starts. I confess I've looked into this idea, and am already half-designing my own Chitin I army. I even found a few minis for it. But whatever I decide to do, My heartfelt thanks to my friend, Nate, and to all of you. I think this was an excellent place to start my return into wargaming, whether 2mm, 6mm, plastic army men, ironclad, starships, or even flat paper cannibalistic bugs. |
Gorgrat | 11 Jun 2021 11:45 a.m. PST |
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Gorgrat | 11 Jun 2021 11:46 a.m. PST |
Still not quite sure. After all, paper isn't metal or plastic, and I think I'd miss the solidity, but he does look cool. |
Sgt Slag | 11 Jun 2021 1:40 p.m. PST |
Print the figures on full sheet label paper. Cut them out, and peel and apply them to MDF rectangles, or 2mm-3mm thick cardboard (larger sheets are available at Michael's craft store; used for backing of large picture frames). You can then glue them to MDF bases, or poker chips (use E6000 Glue, or Low temperature Hot Glue). Cheers! |
Gorgrat | 11 Jun 2021 1:51 p.m. PST |
Hmm. Clever idea, Sgt. Slag. I take it you've got a collection of these? Any other suggestions for someone brand new to paper flats? |
Sgt Slag | 11 Jun 2021 3:31 p.m. PST |
Nope, not into flats. I print cardstock buildings on full sheet label paper, applying them to 3mm cardboard. I use square wooden dowels in the corners, gluing them together to form the structures. I just adapted what I know to your flats. I did, however, use that same concept with 2D dungeon doors. It worked superbly. I applied the door labels to MDF, then I glued the doors to a square MDF base (T-shaped, covered with a label of dungeon flooring pattern. Cheers! |
etotheipi | 11 Jun 2021 4:03 p.m. PST |
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Gorgrat | 11 Jun 2021 8:41 p.m. PST |
Interesting ideas, both, and my thanks to both of you. |
Thresher01 | 13 Jun 2021 7:23 p.m. PST |
Buy a squad of Denizen or GZG 25mm minis (yes, 25m, not 28mm). They won't break the bank, are very nice minis, and can be used for your scenarios, along with their free, Stargrunt rules, and/or any other rules you wish to choose. Pit them against plastic insect toys, or other, more exotic aliens and fauna. Again, cheap, and won't break the bank. A squad of troops should run you about $20 USD, or less, depending upon how many you want in your unit(s), plus shipping. About the same cost as coffee from Starbucks for a week, or less, I suspect. There are two factions of Sci-Fi troops, and numerous ones from GZG, so you can pit them against each other too, if desired. |
Gorgrat | 13 Jun 2021 9:40 p.m. PST |
Neat idea. Yet another possibility to explore. |
wargamingUSA | 15 Jun 2021 5:05 a.m. PST |
Probably 1/72 plastics are worth a look given the variety of periods now covered and the range of manufacturers. Another benefit is you can often find them inexpensively at flea markets and online aution sites. |
COL Scott ret | 16 Jun 2021 4:17 a.m. PST |
I also am a huge fan of what 1/72 plastics has become. I am not highly skilled but the paint seems to stick fine for me- wash and prime like most other figures then paint and seal (with a clear matt spray). A bit of glue on some plastic card with some sand or flock and you can have a few brigades and ready to fight what ever period you like. by keeping one true scale most terrain can be used for most any period I am interested in. |
Gorgrat | 16 Jun 2021 2:10 p.m. PST |
wargaming usa. Col Scott ret Of course, it has been awhile since I painted, as I seem to repeat endlessly, but 1/72 plastics were something I just never had any luck with. I could never get the soft plastic to either take the paint, nor, even with the few successes I did have, to keep it from flaking off when it was dry, even after using esoteric formulas like coating the figure first with watered down Elmer's glue. However, as an update, I have started my paper 25 army, and it seems to be coming along splendidly. Though I only began a week ago, I already have a little over 200 pieces completed. These are all sci fi pieces so far. I'll try to post some pictures this weekend if I have time. |
20thmaine | 17 Jun 2021 11:21 a.m. PST |
Although there are lots of free paper figures the Peter Dennis series of Flat Figures books link also (nearly all) come with a set of rules, and there are scenery items which are really neat.
If you shop around on Amazon you can pick up most of them for about half the price. You don't cut the figures out of the book, but copy onto card – which means you can make endless armies |
Gorgrat | 08 Aug 2021 3:11 a.m. PST |
Thanks 20th Maine. Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. Those books are great, and I think they will make excellent additions to what I am doing. One interesting issue I've run into is resizing paper figures. This can be more difficult than you'd think, though it can be done. Pixelation becomes an issue. For anyone who has run into this problem, the best solution I have arrived at, oddly enough, is Microsoft Word. Capture a figure on screen with Prtscrn, make it into a png with Paint, but don't resize with Paint, which will badly pixelated the image. Instead, open the png in a Word document, and resize almost to your heart's content. I have gotten away with increases of almost 200% and decreases of only a little less than that before the image starts to look blurry. |