chironex | 03 Jun 2021 3:32 a.m. PST |
YouTube link There has to be a reason for their popularity, but then, there must be a reason why HMAS Canberra has well over a hundred AUG in storage for the crew but only 4 shotguns… |
79thPA | 03 Jun 2021 4:30 a.m. PST |
Of course not. Also, don't confuse civilian popularity with military applications. Shotguns don't replace rifles, and rifles don't replace shotguns. |
Irish Marine | 03 Jun 2021 5:02 a.m. PST |
I carried a Mossberg 590 12ga in Iraq in the city of Hitt. Carrying a shotgun as a PltSgt made do more directing than shooting, but I did at times use it. |
Artilleryman | 03 Jun 2021 5:53 a.m. PST |
As has been said. Each weapon has its role. The Canberra has more use of flexible AUGs than more mono-use shotguns. |
Wargamer Blue | 03 Jun 2021 5:54 a.m. PST |
We have replaced all our semi-auto shotguns with AR-15's in my workplace. |
Choctaw | 03 Jun 2021 7:45 a.m. PST |
The only shotguns my agency uses have door-breaching applications. Otherwise we use the AR-15. |
79thPA | 03 Jun 2021 7:47 a.m. PST |
We carry shotguns and ARs. |
Murphy | 03 Jun 2021 10:19 a.m. PST |
Carried one in my track for bunker clearing during ODS…. |
Woollygooseuk | 03 Jun 2021 11:16 a.m. PST |
I agree with Artilleryman that an AUG is more likely to be more useful in more situations. Ideally a warship would carry both… but cost, storage, ammo, training etc. Personally, for boarding ops I'd much rather have a shotgun. A ship is essentially a metal box full of smaller metal boxes and if you start loosing off 5.56mm *inside* it's anyone's guess where it might end up. |
Steve at The Vault | 03 Jun 2021 1:14 p.m. PST |
I'm not sure of their usefulness in combat or LEO situations, but I know they're hilarious to have at the range! Great fun! |
mrwigglesworth | 03 Jun 2021 2:44 p.m. PST |
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Parzival | 03 Jun 2021 3:07 p.m. PST |
Will it kill the enemy? Will it intimidate the enemy? Will it do both? Then it ain't useless. Doesn't mean it's the best choice or the most effective one. Now, I have 0 military experience and 0 law enforcement experience. BUT I did get the chance to fire an FBI "sawed off" shotgun at a police range, along with a Glock 9mm, an MP4, a Thompson and a "grease" gun SMG. Setting aside the latter two, the shotgun was the easiest to use and know you had an effective kill. Our targets were paper mounted on metal "human shape" forms. With the Glock, it was hard to tell where you hit or if you hit. (My instructor told me I had shot very well, but I couldn't detect any of my hits.) With the MP4, accuracy was obvious in the paper. With the two machine guns, the paper target wound up cut in half and torn to shreds. With the shotgun, the paper was GONE and the metal form was bent completely backwards by the time we were done shooting it, and people were STILL hitting the thing. So, barring the two machine guns, if I were suddenly faced with a bad guy at short range, I'd pick the shotgun every time— cause with one shot, he'd be dead. |
Irish Marine | 03 Jun 2021 4:06 p.m. PST |
When I was in the Marine Corps I went to shotgun course for two weeks. We learned how to skip rounds under cars to hit targets in the ankles and legs on the other side of the car and if we had multiple targets running at us on a street how to shoot in front of them and bounce the shot up into them. Any weapon is a tool, so you pick the right one for the job of you have that chance. |
Wolfhag | 03 Jun 2021 4:44 p.m. PST |
Anyone have experience with shotgun flechette rounds? I heard they are not very effective. Wolfhag |
Zephyr1 | 03 Jun 2021 8:55 p.m. PST |
"There has to be a reason for their popularity, but " Best thing to have around when you need to pot those annoying drones… ;-) |
Dn Jackson | 04 Jun 2021 4:21 a.m. PST |
From what I understand the flechette rounds are good for cutting through foliage. |
Bob Hume | 04 Jun 2021 1:00 p.m. PST |
Every weapon has a use. As an ex policeman, I'll give an example. Responded to a call where an entire block of rednecks were arguing. The whole block was up in arms with each other. Several fistfights had occurred. I parked my cruiser in an alley and got out my shotgun. I racked one round into a Remington 870. Racking a round is clearly discernable at 2 am. Instant silence occurred. I walked between the houses and into the street. I managed to see the last couple people running into their front doors. I stood under a street light with a couple other officers and made an announcement that if I had to come back, anyone I saw was going to jail. I was amazed at how quiet it got when I racked the round. We didn't have to go back either. Course this was in the mid 80's Different time, different people than today, but I'll bet it would still mostly work. |
Wolfhag | 04 Jun 2021 1:16 p.m. PST |
Brain Damaged, You da man! When I was in college (early 1970's) I worked as a security guard at a truck terminal in Miami with the local Marine recruiters. We had a 12 gauge Mossberg pump with a 12.5 inch barrel (no bayonet attachment). It always got people's attention and worked great in tight places. Wolfhag |
Major Mike | 04 Jun 2021 2:29 p.m. PST |
Responded to a call from a tenet that had an order of protection from ex-boyfriend. I arrived with a pump shotgun. He sobered up quickly when I racked a round and pointed it at him. As already said, it has it's pluses and minus's and its not for every situation, but, then neither is an M-4. |
Stoppage | 04 Jun 2021 3:56 p.m. PST |
an entire block of rednecks were arguing Err… How big is a block? Approximately how many "rednecks" in the block? Difficult to picture this from my stone-built cottage in a small village in Northern England? |
Wolfhag | 04 Jun 2021 5:17 p.m. PST |
Stoppage, Think of British hooligans in a stadium at a soccer game. Wolfhag |
Stoppage | 05 Jun 2021 3:01 a.m. PST |
Tactical shotguns may well be useless compared to other lethal weapons used at range. However, at close quarters: - Tear gas - Baton rounds - Door breaching rounds All useful in the context of British riot control. It amuses that a British invention is now a Canadian one: - Arwen 37 revolver |
Bob Hume | 05 Jun 2021 7:03 a.m. PST |
Stoppage, I'd trade ya for your stone built cottage any day. Well, not really. I live in a small stone clad home one street from the edge of town. Had to live inside the city when I first got hired on the PD. Bought the home and have never had to move. The block that I mentioned consists of about 60 homes near the center of town. Rough guess, 3 to 5 people per home. Again, that was a long time ago. Having never been to Britain, I have no idea how you all feel about or know about weapons. Here in southern Ohio just about everyone knows a little or has handled a gun of some type. People here have great respect and a little fear of what a shotgun can do. |
Col Durnford | 05 Jun 2021 11:59 a.m. PST |
The shotgun does not even need to be loaded. I lived in a small town in Pennsylvania and there was a riot at the county jail. The state police were called in. When they arrived, they all on loaded their shotguns. As each one was left into the cell block, he racked his weapon. The riot ended then and there. As above, it was in a simpler time. |
Parzival | 05 Jun 2021 12:02 p.m. PST |
Years ago I read an interview with a "professional" burglar who had become a security consultant. He said the sound he had feared most of all was the racking of a shotgun. Alarms, dogs, sirens… none of them made him run. But that racking sound? He was gone. |
Stoppage | 06 Jun 2021 5:43 a.m. PST |
These anecdotes are illustrating that shotguns can be very useful in resolving nasty situations without escalation. |
Wolfhag | 06 Jun 2021 2:10 p.m. PST |
I need to record that sound to play on my cellphone. It would be a great ring tone. My son's cell phone ring tone is the "ting" of an M1 Garand clip being ejected. Wolfhag |
Zephyr1 | 06 Jun 2021 9:27 p.m. PST |
"Years ago I read an interview with a "professional" burglar who had become a security consultant. He said the sound he had feared most of all was the racking of a shotgun." Yep, you don't want to break into a house and find Granny sitting in a rocker with a shotgun across her lap (but chances are you wouldn't get a warning, 'cause Granny uses a breechloader… ;-) |
Murvihill | 07 Jun 2021 3:56 p.m. PST |
My first ship issued shotguns and .45s to security teams inside the ship and rifles only to people outside the ship. Reason was a rifle round could go through three bulkheads and kill someone, shotguns and .45's didn't have that penetration. |
BigNickR | 08 Jun 2021 3:00 p.m. PST |
shotguns are going to be useful for killing drones in the near future |
Bobgnar | 08 Jun 2021 9:41 p.m. PST |
I find it difficult to believe people actually have strong opinions, or any opinions on this subject to the extent that they would make a video, and almost 1500 people would make a comment. |
Stoppage | 09 Jun 2021 6:40 a.m. PST |
@bobgnar Seeing is believing! Gratuitous, totally unrelated, anecdote follows: The last time I handled a shotgun: I was told to look out of the library window, I was then handed the side-by-side, I was then instructed to engage the rabbits in the cabbage-patch. Was treated to barter-beer in the pub (White Hart, Colyford, East Devon) and the conies went into the rabbit-pie for the caravanners out back. I am sure the cute little bunnies would have scattered at the sound of the "rack" of a pump-shotgun. |