"scr584 anti-aircraft radar I in counterbattery role?" Topic
9 Posts
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wardog | 23 May 2021 2:35 p.m. PST |
the scr 584 was a trailer mounted anti-aircraft radar link it could track artillery shells in flight and could pinpoint enemy batteries for counterbattery fire. is there any intel out there involving a counterbattery action with this radar? . need to know if it involved gun/howitzer 105 mm or higher etc (looking at 1946 U.S. v soviet scenario down the line ) or was it more high angle mortar engagement ? |
Griefbringer | 24 May 2021 12:30 p.m. PST |
Interesting, this is the first time that I hear of WWII era radar being able to track artillery shells. However, since the range given for spotting bombers is listed as 40 miles in the article, I am wondering if the distance for spotting artillery shells (with their smaller size and higher velocity) would be much more limited. |
Starfury Rider | 24 May 2021 12:41 p.m. PST |
Radar was put to use by the British and Canadian armies in the closing months of the war in the counter mortar role. They each established an Army Radar Battery in 21AG, using the radar AA No.3, MkII. There was also a field Radar Regt in Italy, which has left practically nil history in general circulation. I don't know if the US formalised the use of something like the SCR-584, I don't recall them setting up a dedicated Battery. Gary |
emckinney | 24 May 2021 1:08 p.m. PST |
Griefbringer, With early radars, ships were able to watch their shells on the way out. |
emckinney | 24 May 2021 1:11 p.m. PST |
Higher velocity isn't much of a problem, particularly because you can take advantage of the Doppler shift for more noise filtering. Of course, you need be near the line of fire of the artillery for good results. |
Starfury Rider | 24 May 2021 5:04 p.m. PST |
Some detail on the US use of radar in the mortar/artillery locating role in the article here; link click on the 'Eyes and ears…target acquisition' title. Gary |
Griefbringer | 25 May 2021 12:49 p.m. PST |
I guess I will need to educate myself more on these early radars and other artillery target acquisition methods. The work linked by Gary seems promising, though at 188 pages it will probably take quite some time trawling through. As for the original post and the idea of using this info for a 1946 scenario, I am wondering at what level of command wardog is going to be gaming it? My understanding is that assets designed for locating enemy artillery batteries were held at quite high command levels. For example, in the British army the RA units intended to provide such intelligence were held at corps level – as would likely be the case with guns intended for counter-battery fire. |
deephorse | 26 May 2021 4:48 a.m. PST |
If you're interested in the Canadian/British use of radar for counter battery work, and more specifically, counter mortar work, then try to get a copy of 1st Canadian Radar Battery, 1944-45, with an introduction by Terry Copp. Published by The Laurier Centre for Military Strategic and Disarmament Studies. I found it to be a very informative little booklet of just 50 pages. Copies are available on Amazon UK at this time. |
Starfury Rider | 26 May 2021 5:51 a.m. PST |
The proper radar units were indeed quite high up the food chain, with the Army level Batteries working with Corps HQs as I recall. The Counter Mortar Officer's (CMO) Staff was added to Br/Cdn Divs during the campaign in NWE. They were not radar equipped and used four pen recorders, observation and intelligence from other units to make their plots. Survey Regts also added an increment for sound ranging. There is a WE table for an RA Counter Mortar Battery in an Inf Div, which was radar equipped. After making inquiries many years ago I could only conclude they were never deployed in real life. 21AG had its own system up and running as did forces in Italy. The rewrite of the US Inf Div T/O, scheduled for use against Japan, did include some 'counterfire' subunits. including in the Inf Regts as I recall. Gary |
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