"The best cavalry of the 30 Years War era?" Topic

There were a lot of big name's being thrown around during this time Wallensteins 'Black' Cuirassiers, Cromwell's Ironsides and Polish Winged Hussars. Which one of these would most likely be able to defeat the other 2 given any conditions you pick?

Of this trio I'd opt for the Ironsides although I'm not supporter of the Malcontents.

Try with Croats, they did well

Winged Hussars.

Winged Hussars possibly had more success against wider and more varied opponents, so I would go with them.

Pappenheims' curassiers were very good (I believe better than Wallensteins), Bavarians early war were right up there with anyone but the Winged hussars were prolly the best. The Finnish horse were always feared but under armored.

Polish Winged Hussars, everyday, all day, for the win.

Sobieski leading the charge of 3000 Winged Hussars at the 1683 Battle of Vienna and saving Christendom has got to give the win to the Winged Hussars.

1683 is 30YW period?

Tough call but I would also go with the Winged Hussars – I suspect they were more effective in a charge than the Ironsides

As disappointing as it may sounds for fans of winged hussars, there was no such thing as 'charge of 3000' of them at Vienna ;)

During TYW I would still place my bet in winged hussars, although much would depend on conditions of the battlefield and presence of any support troops. Swedish cavalry shows that in some situation they can be real pain in the next for hussars – like at Tczew in 1627 or Górzno in 1629. At the same time at Trzciana in 1629 hussars, supported by cossack cavalry and Imperial cavalry, managed to badly mauled Swedish cavalry.

Putting Ironsides as candidates for 'best cavalry unit' seems bit too far fetched, as they never had opportunity to face Polish hussars or Gustav Adolf's veterans (sirca 1631).

Also depends on what battlefield role you have in mind.
Shock cavalry: Poles for sure
Light cavalry….

What about Gustav's Finn's? Also a vote for the Hussars…armor and wings.

Surely Gustavus Adolphus mad Finns the Hakka Pelita

If the contest was psalm singing then I'd say the Ironsides were in the running.

Otherwise my money would be on the Husaria before the Black cuirassiers. Gustav Adolph fought both and obviously respected the danger both presented. He seemed to be happier to face the cuirassier in open battle (with the notable exceptions that Kadrinazi details). This suggests to me GA would have put Husaria at the top.

I can't think of any cavalry from the British isles in this period that fought opponents on the continent to help with a comparison. The English Commonwealth foot fought well at the Dunes, and later in Portugal. Perhaps we'd need to ask Rupert and Goring for a comparison between Ironsides and black cuirassiers 😀

Going on memory here, but wasn't GA's cavalry facing the Poles a lot few and lighter than what he had in Germany just a few years later? He was reticent to fight for the first few months after landing in Pomerania, but when the German troops started showing up in numbers for him he seemed to feel more confident to face the enemy.

"Then the Winged Hussars Arrived!"

They usually beat up my friends Lobsters when we played. Yeah, we had some weird match-ups!!

As disappointing as it may sounds for fans of winged hussars, there was no such thing as 'charge of 3000' of them at Vienna ;)

True, I don't have the figures, probably close to 1,000 though, the rest being somewhat lighter retainers, mainly Pancerni. Still, very impressive

Hey just for $hits and giggles click on, Sabaton – Winged Hussars, very rousing and some really cool footage. Sabaton is apparently a Swedish heavy metal rock group, they usually write songs about heroism in war. Their song, "Then the Winged Hussars Arrived" very cool

Let me know what you think?

+1 von Schwartz, cool vid and inspiring song. Also Poltava and the on Gustav are excellent. IMHO that is.

None of them as it was the French Cavalry that ultimately dominated mid TYW onwards.

@PerfectCaptain – I don't think GA's cavalry in Poland in the late 1620s were ‘lighter' that that later on in Germany. If anything there may have been more armour being worn earlier, that was later discarded. The last major engagement in Poland in 1629 had GA's cavalry in a fighting retreat as it was chased down by Polish Hussars and Cossacks.

I've always felt that the Polish winged hussars were overhyped, resulting in them being a wargaming super unit. I tend to agree with Marcus that the French cavalry were the better cavalry of the mid/later period.

von Schwartz ver 2 – the Sabaton video was fun, as was almost said in Liberty Valance "When the legend becomes fact, sing the legend"

I am of the impression that there was more to cavalryman's life in the early 17th century than just looking good in parades and charging enemy cavalry en masse in the battlefield.

Scouting, skirmishing and pursuit were also tasks that cavalry was expected to carry out, not to mention other less glorious tasks such as foraging and escorting supply columns (where e.g. dragoons would be rather useful). And on the battlefield they would need to be able to deal not only with enemy cavalry (light and heavy), but also with pikemen, musketeers and field artillery. Meanwhile, sieges were still an important part of warfare, and cavalrymen would be useful in patrolling duties – or in a pinch as dismounted assault troops.

Cuirassiers with their heavy armour could be pretty scary on frontal charges in the battlefield, but otherwise were somewhat limited and intended to be supported by more lightly equipped arquebusiers. That full cuirassier armour must have looked impressive on parades, though.

Ironsides seem to have been a bit like the native Swedish TYW cavalry, in having good discipline and being more lightly equipped than cuirassiers, but able to act on a wider range of cavalry roles. Their good discipline may have provided them with an advantage over some of the less orderly opponents in the British isles, but I would not count on them being superior to better grade continental units of the time period. Maybe not the most dashing appearance on parade, either, though the good discipline must have helped.

Winged hussars probably deserve the distinction for most impressive parade appearance. They also retained the lance well after it had been phased out in the west, likely giving them some advantage in frontal charges, but this was supplemented by a small arsenal of swords, axes, warhammers and pistols (and even the odd warhammer with integrated pistol; I have seen one in a military museum in Warsaw). Even then, they were not supposed to act all on their own, but would be accompanied by lighter retainers, who might e.g. carry carbines for longer range action.

[As for Sabaton and Winged Hussars song, please notice that any music videos actually featuring cavalrymen galloping around are likely fan works with the video footage cut from commercial movies. Actual "official" versions from Sabaton seem to be a lyrics video and live performance recordings.]

[As for Sabaton and Winged Hussars song, please notice that any music videos actually featuring cavalrymen galloping around are likely fan works with the video footage cut from commercial movies. Actual "official" versions from Sabaton seem to be a lyrics video and live performance recordings.]

I know, but it's cool none-the-less.

Don't harsh my gig!!

French Cavalry.

Started off as mediocre, but soon became the best cavalry.