"AWI . 21 Royal North British Fusiliers (Scotland)" Topic

….My conversion of a plastic set of Perry miniatures.

Good job!

From here

link

Armand

Very nice indeed!

The grens look good.

"My conversion…."
What I've been complaining about for months now.

What's that, John?

The wording of his posts. He didn't do that work.
He doesn't credit where he got the blog by name. Just a tiny "link".
As usual, it looks like he's claiming it as his own, but for the tiniest "link".
This one is more blatant than usual.
Since nobody can make more than 5 new threads per day, it's not exactly as if he's under a time constraint to say "From the very interesting ‘Brush, stack and the Wargame miniatures' blog."

Yes, T is usually careful to put the originators comments in quotation marks. A bad mistake. As per the reference to the original source, the link is fine AFAIC.

"My conversion…."
What I've been complaining about for months now.

What exactly are you complaining about, that someone is going to think he painted those soldiers, contact Tango and, under false pretenses, send him the nicest grenadiers on the Internet trophy?

Fusiliers

Thanks!.

Armand

Fusiliers

Fusiliers, right, sorry.

To be correct, they are Grenadiers in a Fusilier regiment. Note the shoulders. That's also why they have swords.

According to Don Hagist, for the 1776 and 1777 campaigns, all the Grenadiers were equipped with Long Land Besses. Use em if you got em. LoL

Oh LoL.

Say, since you know it all, whatever happened to a reprint of those Novak AWI OOB books?

I don't know if Perry has the lower stubby Fusilier cap on the sprue. Probably not.
But if they did, the body should have no Grenadier wings or birds nest or whatever on the shoulder. That body would be the British Line infantry.

Ask Russ about the books.

I guess it depends on whether they are supposed to be Grenadiers from that regiment or not.

John is right about the updated Novak books. I've bugged Russ about it a bit. I think it has to go through Novak's widow. :-(

OK so they ARE grenadiers after all.

Are they:

A. Grenadiers of fusiliers

B. Fusilier grenadiers

C. Grenadier fusiliers

D. All of the above

They are definitely not fusiliers.
They're wearing a sword. Grenadiers carried swords. Fusiliers would not.
They have shoulder wings. Grenadiers would have them, fusiliers not.
They hat is a Grenadier bearskin, not a fusilier one.

They're grenadiers. They could be from the Grenadier company of Royal North British Fusiliers, though.

Bingo

Didn't I say that fifty posts ago? LoL

Didn't I say that fifty posts ago? LoL

Yes, you did but then the man who survived a near fatal sheep nibbling caused some confusion. Doubtless as a result of after effects from his severe shock and ewe.

Now, the real question is what does John the OFMG think the harm is here. What's lost? Is someone going to contact Tango and ask him to paint 1000 Grenadier company of the Royal North British Fusilier regiment? Only to realize the painting quality mistake too late?

What we got here is … failure. To communicate.

To throw another curve ball into the mix, in pretty sure that the 21st didn't wear their bearskins on campaign. Same goes for the Grenadiers. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.🙄😆

The harm?
It's comparable to fans thinking Taylor Swift wrote "Today I started loving you again."

I am not dying on the hill insisting that fusiliers and grenadiers wore their special hats on campaign. Or light infantry either for that matter.
However if some quality manufacturers were to make authentic fusiliers in 1768 Warrant uniform wearing that cute fusilier cap, I will force them to take my money.
I bought dozens of Foundry Grenadier and Light Infantry figures in a clearance sale. I have recorded April Morning.
I need the 23rd Foot in all their incorrect glory for the fight from Concord back to Boston, and to do Bunker Hill. (Only pedants say "Breed's Hill".)

I'm the customer. I'm always right. Shut up and take my money. I want to see your manager.

the man who survived a near fatal sheep nibbling caused some confusion

1)I regret my statement of fact caused you confusion
2)No sheep mandibles were directly involved in the encounter

the 21st didn't wear their bearskins on campaign. Same goes for the Grenadiers

I didn't like to say

Only pedants say "Breed's Hill"

The battle of Bunker Hill was fought on and around Breed's Hill. (See 'Waterloo/Mont St Jean,' etc.)

Taylor Swift wrote "Today I started loving you again

I believe she typed it.

P.S. What are those grenadiers doing with the regimental colours?

P.S. What are those grenadiers doing with the regimental colours?

I can't be expected to do all the pedantry here myself! I didn't even try to analyze the lace.

Besides, it's the King's Colours.

Here, let me try. I think that is a "unit" in the rules system he is using. And, the guy is Russian, so….🙄

'King's Colour,' specifically.

'Regimental colours'- in general. Not usually the purview of grenadiers.

(P.S. Where is the Regimental Colour?)

The pedantry is strong on this thread, Luke.

The pedantry is strong on this thread, Luke.

Pedantry, sir? In the historical wargaming community, sir? That is a scandalous comment, sir. Pistols at dawn, sir.

This reminds me of one of those insoluble theorems:

What happens when an immovable pedant meets an irresistible OCD?

(smile)

Armand

What happens when an immovable pedant meets an irresistible OCD?

It will be ludicrous in the extreme.

I results in a time warp vortex.

IF they are the 21st, they'd look like this. They are in Hamilton's Brigade, Burgoyne's Center Column.

link

Fuzileers 'n shizz?

Some time later. Actually, in Burgoyne's 1777 expedition I believe the 21st would have been wearing a 'cap hat' cut down from the regulation hat. Actually.

link

Does anyone know who designed these Saratoga caps and how they were made? They seem somewhat complex.

Did the Fusilier Grenadiers also wear these?

The turned-up front bore a resemblance to the so-called 'Keppel' model of cap approved for the revived Light infantry companies in 1771-72. The longtitudunal 'comb' to which the hair crest was attached seems to have been the same structure as the light infantry cap made up for the light company of the 37th Regt in New York in 1778. Experimental historians reproducing this item from details of accounts constructed this from two pieces of stiffened felt stuck together and glued to the crown of the cap.

It was supposed to have been made from a standard un-cocked hat. Each regiment had men who were skilled enough to do the necessary work to make the conversion.
One can wonder how long it took, and whether the whole regiment had the work completed before they took the field.
This is an excuse to throw in some round hats into the mix. You need not take it seriously.

But no one has ever seen the line pattern for one of these hats?

No one knows the author of the hat? Someone needs to have designed the prototype.

Add that to the list of boring documents and bureaucratic folderol we don't have anymore that might explain things a bit better.

What John said on how they were made. Just their cocked hats recut. This army missed its second issue of clothing, intercepted at sea. Burgoyne ordered that the uniforms should all be made to look like Light Infantry, given the campaign before them, the special training of fighting at open or extended order, and the general movement of the British Army in North America toward a more open and lose formation.

Given all that, the hats were cut to look like the Light Infantry caps, complete with horse hair. The ironic thing is, the main architect behind all this – General William Howe – allowed his Lights to wear round hats, not recut cocked hats to be made to look like the Light Leather caps. But these were two separate armies, two separate commands.

And yes, the grenadiers wore modified hats too, as shown in the link to the Troiani painting.

Given all that, the hats were cut to look like the Light Infantry caps, complete with horse hair. The ironic thing is, the main architect behind all this – General William Howe – allowed his Lights to wear round hats, not recut cocked hats to be made to look like the Light Leather caps.

Let me see if I understand. This is exciting, juicy stuff but finding out the identity of the man who designed the actual cap shape is a bore?

But these were two separate armies, two separate commands.

Like this?

YouTube link

If the identity of the man who designed that cap is so important to you, might I suggest that you are as entitled as anyone to do that research.
Have fun storming the castle.

If the identity of the man who designed that cap is so important to you, might I suggest that you are as entitled as anyone to do that research.
Have fun storming the castle.

You mock me sir.

I think he's being sincere. 😆

At least we can see how the bearskins were constructed:

link

Courtesy of RWFA 23rd Regiment of Foot, Captain Ferguson's Company

A shame that, after all that, they should finish with a shot of the drummer against the gateway so we couldn't see the cap fully.

I am not sure, though, whether 'Black Bear' dates back to the 1770s. The earliest record, at any rate, is from the 1860s and associated with the 86th Royal County Down (who later became 2nd Royal Irish Rifles).

A shame that, after all that, they should finish with a shot of the drummer against the gateway so we couldn't see the cap fully.

Probably trying to keep out of the sight of PETA scopes.

I am not sure, though, whether 'Black Bear' dates back to the 1770s. The earliest record, at any rate, is from the 1860s and associated with the 86th Royal County Down (who later became 2nd Royal Irish Rifles).

I think you're right. Still a very nice military tune.

Still, maybe they shouldve played something more appropriate. What's the tune they played when Cornwallis surrendered? The 23rd were there, weren't they?