"Wargaming Without Rules - It Counts!" Topic

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Is it possible to 'wargame' without any rules?

I was reading about toy soldier collectors who engage in what they call wargaming, but from what I could tell, it seemed that they were not 'gaming' in the usual sense, more like collectively acting out a battle with toy soldiers. There didn't seem to be any formal rules or dice.

In your opinion, does that count as wargaming?

51% said "yes, this counts as wargaming"
36% said "no, this doesn't count as wargaming"

To be pedantic ; they are using rules bit not tightly written ones.

Can I take the opponent's' soldiers and re-deploy them?
Can I take the opponent's troops and remove them from play.

If there are rules covering these two examples? If so then there are rules

martin

Yes, for a while the oldest child won any disagreement unless Mommy was called in to umpire. I was 5.

Of course it does. Like I said in an earlier thread, throwing dirt bombs takes skill. Throwing dice is just luck. Fortune favors the guy with the better aim.

Maybe we need to separate the hobby (or the rules) into:

War Gaming

or

War Simulating

I would put rules like Bolt Action into "War Gaming" but rules as complex as (I realize apples and oranges here but I don't have a minis set in mind) Squad Leader into "War Simulating"……

Dave

Oh no! He said the S-word!

Personally, if there aren't rules, it isn't a game.

"Oh no! He said the S-word"

And in the same sentence as "Squad Leader"!

John Hill deliberately designed SL in opposition to to what he viewed as the simulationist school of games like "Tobruk".

Anyway, I have no great issue with people pushing toys around and discussing what may or may not happen. As noted above, there will be some informal framework around it, and isn't it what everyone does when they run out of time to finish a game?

Can work quite well with an umpire, in a free kriegspiel kinda way

Isn't this really a TEWT?

Since I play mostly solo, I will often "wing it". I recall an article in one of the British mags many years ago. The author stated that all you really need to play a game are rules for movement, combat and morale. Anything else is window dressing.

During the worst of the pandemic I did some experimenting with solo-gaming. It didn't work for me. I would eventually not set up much terrain and ignore the rules.

I spend a lot of time on the look of my games to get everyone in the right frame of mind. Without players I didn't care what it looked liked unless I posted photos. It takes a disciplined mine to stick to the letter of the rules when playing solo.

if there aren't rules, it isn't a game

Simply stated, and correct. If there are no rules then you are creating a miniature diorama or you are playing with toy soldiers like a child. Not judging anyone; it's a simple point of logic. No rules means no game.

I've always thought that a game needed some sort of competition, between people. I never understood the concept of solo gaming. That seems to be an oxymoron . I think this aspect of the total Life of toy soldiers playing is "war playing. ". I don't denigrated it at all but I don't consider it a game.

Moreover, I don't believe there can be a game without rules, another oxymoron. Even when war playing with toy soldiers there are rules. At a minimum do the toy soldiers all have to be standing up. Or can you "play" with them lying down? If you just take a bunch of toy soldiers and stand them up on the table is that playing a game? Once you decide to move them you have a rule.

To me the two are synonymous much of our rule writing was based on effectively what is being described. We set up a scanario move troops about and debate the the whys and wherefore's of the actions and what they represent. The result is the answer, the rules are then run through in a formal way to check that they achive the intended result. So wargameing without large formal rules but constrained by "Common sence" reality the players knowledge is by definition a wargame in its breadest sence. The only problem I see it that it takes forever even for a simple scenario as all the options are considered and accepted or rejected. However it is great fun and a riveting learning experience.