trinko | 28 Apr 2021 8:18 p.m. PST |
So far what I've found is that when in skirmish formation Jagers were 6 paces apart. I think that jagers operated in pairs of 2 one firing and one loading Those pairs were 6 paces apart? What I'd like to know is where the officers and signalers, bugle I think, were, was there more than one skirmish line, and how straight was the line--ie were the individual skirmishers say +/- 10 feet of the line or 100ft? Thanks for any information! |
Stoppage | 29 Apr 2021 9:02 a.m. PST |
Infantry regiments: - circa 960 / 3 ranks = 320 files Rear rank makes two detachments – right and left – each: - circa 160 / 2 ranks = 80 files - 40 pairs go forth and skirmish - 40 files remain as supports. I'd imagine there'd be an officer and ncos (x4?) for each (battalion has now detached four officers and (x8?) ncos), perhaps with a drummer with the supports. NB Prussians did same, as probably did Early Russians NB2 Early British infantry (1790s) used similar 3rd-rank detachments to elongate the line on each flank NB3 Austrian battalions operated in three divisions with their battalion guns interlined between the right-most and the centre. Your detachments should not be in the guns' line of fire. NB4 If the detachments get lost or destroyed then the battalion has kissed-goodbye to a third of its strength. NB5 Each of the two detachments is stronger than one French early platoon (900/9 = 100) or one later platoon (840/6 = 140). |
trinko | 29 Apr 2021 12:02 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the info but I was specifically asking about jagers not about line infantry skirmishers. Does this info apply to the Jagers as well? Also do you have any info on how either the line infantry or the jagers were arrayed as skirmishers? Where were the support files stationed? How far back from the skirmishers? For the 40 pairs in the skirmish line were they in a line or were they at different distances from the main battalion? Same question for the jagers. Thanks again! |
Stoppage | 29 Apr 2021 1:23 p.m. PST |
No idea about the jaegers (guesses below!) the skirmishing pairs would be anywhere from open order to the six paces you've mentioned – they'd be in a line – maybe described as a "chain" The supports would be close enough that the skirmishers could return to them if attacked in force. (say 100 – 200 paces). Sometimes the supports would be held back behind the battalion's flanks and so the skirmishers would be from 100 – 200 paces from the main line. Guessing:
As for the Jaegers themselves. I'd have thought that they'd have operated by grand divisions (each of which is the size of a French half-battalion) and detached supports and skirmishers similarly to the line infantry. |
trinko | 29 Apr 2021 1:24 p.m. PST |
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Timbo W | 30 Apr 2021 4:33 p.m. PST |
Anyone know if the Austrian Jager could form and fight in close order or if they were skirmish-only? |
Stoppage | 30 Apr 2021 5:29 p.m. PST |
More importantly – if in close order – would they advance against artillery fire? |
SHaT1984 | 30 Apr 2021 10:31 p.m. PST |
Would they stand under fire while eating sauerkraut? |
Musketballs | 30 Apr 2021 10:49 p.m. PST |
Jager battalions were fundamentally organised the same way as any other battalion – six companies (or half-divisions), each of 4 zug, formed right-to-left in seniority. For close-order work (columns. masses, whatever), they used the same drill as everyone else. For light-infantry duties…be it advance-guard, rear-guard, outposts etc, it's a bit trickier. As the 1st Jagers history notes, no formal regulations were issued for that at the time – so each battalion developed its own way of doing things. The skirmish line (kette) was formed from the rifle-armed men in the third rank – the carbine-armed men from the first and second ranks provided the formed supports. |
Timbo W | 01 May 2021 4:33 a.m. PST |
Right ho, I was considering whether to base them 'skirmishers only' on big scenic bases or in twos on close order bases, looks like the latter is the best choice |
von Winterfeldt | 01 May 2021 5:00 a.m. PST |
best would be to consult the regulations about the Jäger, see also useful stuff, there is one about 1841 which may contain information about earlier periods. Bear in mind that only a part of the Jäger were equipped with a rifle but most with the smooth bore Jäger carbine. |
Stoppage | 01 May 2021 6:33 a.m. PST |
Or – how about: Big base with paired rifles in the "kette", backed by close-order single-ranked carbines with officer and signaller? |
von Winterfeldt | 01 May 2021 11:06 a.m. PST |
It would merit to read up on this, it could well be that the carbine Jäger and the rifle Jäger were teamed as a pair, so you would have the right tool for the tactical situation. |
johannes55 | 02 May 2021 11:59 p.m. PST |
Did they use the same tactics during the whole French Revolutionary and Napoleonic period? |
Scott Sutherland | 05 May 2021 11:11 a.m. PST |
Does not seem to be any Napoleonic manuals for Austrian Jager, However, the following from 1841 may give some insight to the forming the chain for jager units – see plates 19 onwards link |
Stoppage | 05 May 2021 7:34 p.m. PST |
So – according to 1841 – supports and reserves in three ranks. The 'Kette' formed by 'flattened' files-of-three (not pairs) Lots of detail about the divisionen – more than by company (half-division) or battalion |
Stoppage | 19 May 2021 12:29 p.m. PST |
Just bought a new bicycle chain… …Of course "Kette" is German/Austrian for chain! Duh. |