"Frei schutz" Topic

Seeking enlightenment- what would be a suitable, non-literal, English translation of the German term- freischutz

It occurs to me that it might be cognate with franc tireur, for which a suitable English term seems equally elusive.

rifle volunteer

Para military. This is after all what such groups are.

Freischütz is a hunter who by magical procedures, e. g. Freikugeln (free bullets) has aquired the ability to hit all aims he want to.
So the opera by Weber.
There is no military connexion.

Thanks. I was indeed prompted by reference on the wireless to the opera by Weber with frei schutz rendered somewhat unconvincingly as 'free shooter,' although I gather this is in fact a fairly usual translation.

I hadn't realised the terms was so specific. I am still curious as to how it might be expressed freely in English. 'Free bullets,' for instance, doesn't really tell me anything about magic qualities.

I see 'marksman' is also favoured as an English rendering. which is more colloquial but that, while accurately describing to the eponymous character's skills or powers, seems only to address the 'schutz' element.

The problem is that, depending on the period, they might be the equivalent of a 'gentlemen's' shooting club, a local yeomanry or territorial unit or a politically affiliated para-military group.

A translation into an equivalent English term would have to take into account what the term referred to in Germany at the time of its use. A non-literal translation would always contain an element of subjective assumption and thus have limited usefulness without a context.

Thank you, admirably clear. With regard to the pitfalls of non-literal translation, I agree. Searching for idiomatic rendering with comparable meaning can be a delicate operation.

To add to the complexity – Freischütz is pure fiction, there never has been such a person in the real world. I don't know about this kind of literature in English, but German and Austrian literature is abundant of men who get special abilities from the devil – for a price, of course, which means the soul. So Freischütz might be translated as magical or devil's hunter, the same for the bullets.
BTW – I am not an opera buff, but the Freischütz by Weber is really great.

Freischutz = Marksman
Franc tireur = sniper

Don't know what you mean by a "non-literal" English translation, ANY translation would be literal.
The operas you mention are simply legends and myths put to music and they seem to have pretty well covered here.

Not true von S

Chemin de fer literally translated is path of iron, its non-literal translation is railway.

Franc-tireur (which is the more usual spelling) actually means a dissident or non-conformist. It was used during the Franco-Prussian war to describe Frenchmen shooting at Prussians outside a formal battle, from ambush or from houses as the Prussians passed through. Only later did it come to be used to mean a sniper.

Just to be clear, did Weber invent the name of the der Freischutz or was it a term already familiar from folklore?

Certainly,'free shooter' doesn't mean much in English.

A footnote of sorts: -
Having coincidentally come across reference to a meaning of frei as 'voluntary,' I was wondering whether, counter to the image of a 'rifle volunteer' as a worthy individual providing a patriotic supplement to the regular forces (in the 19th century Anglo-Saxon context)we should think more in the sense of an 'irregular,' that is the opposite of the regular forces, with the connotations regarding discipline, control and legal status we might also associate with the related term freikorps.'

Certainly, pace Gildas' post above, that is a common association with the French term franc-tireur. I wasn't aware of of the cultural connotations Gildas mentions. Interestingly, Larousse online places emphasis on the military association:
link

'-Soldat qui ne fait pas partie de l'armée régulière.
'-Dans un art, une science, dans un groupe quelconque, personne qui agit en isolé avec une complète indépendance par rapport aux autres.
'-Dans les armées de la Révolution française, soldat de certains corps d'infanterie légère.'

As 42flanker's question hasn't been answered yet, Weber didn't come up with the name himself as his opera was based on the first story in volume one of Gespensterbuch (Ghost book in a literal translation or more idiomatically, book of ghost stories) by A. Apel and F. Laun; "Der Freischütz, eine Volkssage".

The first translation of the story into English that I know of was in the collection "Tales of the Wild and the Wonderful" by George Borrow which was published anonymously in 1825. Like many translators of the opera he left it as Freischütz although I rather like the title as he gave it in full:

DER FREISCHUTZ;
OR,
THE MAGIC BALLS.

Who wouldn't sell their soul for a couple of those.

And regarding the second part of the question, it had a long tradition going back at least to the fourteenth century according to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica although it is not in there currently as far as I can see:

FREISCHÜTZ, in German folklore, a marksman who by a compact with the devil has obtained a certain number of bullets destined to hit without fail whatever object he wishes. As the legend is usually told, six of the Freikugeln or "free bullets" are thus subservient to the marksman's will, but the seventh is at the absolute disposal of the devil himself. Various methods were adopted in order to procure possession of the marvellous missiles. According to one the marksman, instead of swallowing the sacramental host, kept it and fixed it on a tree, shot at it and caused it to bleed great drops of blood, gathered the drops on a piece of cloth and reduced the whole to ashes, and then with these ashes added the requisite virtue to the lead of which his bullets were made. Various vegetable or animal substances had the reputation of serving the same purpose. Stories about the Freischütz were especially common in Germany during the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries; but the first time that the legend was turned to literary profit is said to have been by Apel in the Gespensterbuch or "Book of Ghosts." It formed the subject of Weber's opera Der Freischütz (1821), the libretto of which was written by Friedrich Kind, who had suggested Apel's story as an excellent theme for the composer. The name by which the Freischütz is known in French is Robin des Bois.

Corporal Trim, quite so, and thank you.

'Magic Balls'- yes indeed.

Two observations I feel worth making. One is that with six balls subservient to the freischutz, would it not be the elusive seventh that was the 'free' ball?

In addition, I can't help thinking that possession of any individual precision firearm in the C14th would be a bloody marvel, magical status of the balls notwithstanding.

I wonder if the original tale in fact involved a crossbow with magical bolts.

The French version of the tale, 'Robin des Bois' might be a clue.

I think, although as I haven't personally made such a pact with the devil I can't be certain, that the first six balls are for the Freischütz to use however he wants, as with a free ball in snooker. It might take a native German speaker to say exactly what is meant by Freikugeln though. I do note though that 'magic balls' is how Borrow consistently translated the word and that the modern English translation of the Opera libretto for the Colin Davis recording with the LSO gives it as magic bullets.

Regarding your second point, you might be correct about it originally referring to crossbow bolts, or even longbow arrows, although as firearms were being used from the mid 14th century it might not be entirely outwith the devil's power to create a mediaeval sniper rifle.

One of the magical ingredients to make magic balls in fern seed. A botanist might warn you you'd have a long search on your hands.

Jeeez, from talking bout marksmen and sharpshooters to some "magic balls" this whole thread took kinda a hard turn back there and we are heading straight for the NSFW Board!

Having scanned quickly through the the original German print version "Der Frei-schütz- Eine Volksage" in Volume One of Das Gespensterbuch from 1811, it is interesting to note that there are numerous references to jäger and the world of jäger- jagermeister, jagerbusschen etc and also references to Zauberkugeln (magical bullets) and Glückskugeln (lucky bullets); however, as far as I could see, there was only one reference to frei-schutz in the story :
"Wilhelm put the casting mold on the coals, and threw the lead in it, along with three bullets that had hit before, because he remembered hearing of this practice of the frei-schützen in his apprenticeship."

Curious. A more careful reading might reveal more.

@von Schwartz "we are heading straight for the NSFW Board"

There is no suggestion that at any time der Frei-schutz was improperly dressed.