repaint | 08 Apr 2021 7:50 p.m. PST |
Hello, what are the rules out there that put a lot of emphasis on command and control mechanisms? thank you |
saltflats1929 | 08 Apr 2021 8:16 p.m. PST |
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repaint | 08 Apr 2021 9:14 p.m. PST |
Good question Saltflats. I really don't have any preference, it could be one base = one squad, one platoon, or one company Just curious if there are rules out there where command and control are really a central point. |
monk2002uk | 08 Apr 2021 9:25 p.m. PST |
Spearhead, along with its relatives Great War Spearhead and Modern Spearhead, places a major emphasis on command and control. For WW2, the smallest unit on the table is a platoon. This is the same for Modern Spearhead; the WW1 version uses a company as the smallest unit represented as a stand. This means that, in WW2 scenarios, players command a battalion(s) and brigade or regiment if the scenario includes multiple battalions. In WW1, a player will command regiments/brigades, one or two divisions, and a corps-level HQ, depending on the scenario. The command and control mechanisms emphasise the importance of pre-planning and the difficulties of trying to change a plan once a battle is underway. The mechanics significantly reduce the Eye of God effect, when players can see everything on table. I love this aspect of the xSH suite of rules but it is not to everyone's taste. Some players prefer to have the ability to move at will to engage opponent units as seen on table through the Eye of God lens. At the tactical level, there are rule mechanics which reinforce those aspects of command and control that are relevant to individual stands. Target priority and target proximity are two examples. Target priority means that each type of weapons system will engage enemy targets in a certain priority. For example, in Great War Spearhead an infantry stand (company) must engage enemy infantry stands in range before it can engage MG stands in range. This avoids the tendency in many other rulesets for players to engage and destroy machine guns first then concentrate on enemy infantry once the biggest on-table threat is dispatched. Historically, MGs were more difficult to locate and destroy. Target proximity means that the nearest target of the appropriate type, as determined by target priority, must be engaged first. On the face of it, target priority and target proximity seem quite distinct from command and control at the higher command levels. These rule mechanics, along with others, have a very important effect on planning and on the execution of plans (or not), especially once contact is made. They serve to reinforce the importance of combined arms tactics, for example, as an integral part of command and control. Robert |
Jcfrog | 09 Apr 2021 3:18 a.m. PST |
New O group has quite some. When I wanted some realistic one, I combined those from the boardgames series TCS by Dean Essig ( you can capture pdfs on Mmp site) and put them on top of minatures games with 15-20 minutes turns. |
Decebalus | 09 Apr 2021 4:08 a.m. PST |
Like Robert said: Spearhead. Loosing in Spearhead is always because of having a mediocre plan. |
advocate | 09 Apr 2021 8:58 a.m. PST |
Spearhead and O Group both have effective command mechanisms while simplifying details of combat. They work very nicely. |
Mister Tibbles | 09 Apr 2021 9:05 a.m. PST |
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thomalley | 09 Apr 2021 2:56 p.m. PST |
Kampfgruppe Commander. Bn gets avg die plus commander rating. Cost a pip to active a company, can repeat actions, but cost more. So you can move and fire for two pips, or move twice for 3 pips. Bn have response ratings for opportunity fire and voluntary withdraw, but that deducts from your pips when you have the initiative. |
repaint | 09 Apr 2021 9:45 p.m. PST |
thank you all for the comments. My current research is also pointing to Combat HQ 2nd ed. It seems that the emphasis is put on chaos control with a high level of interaction. Each HQ manoeuvers its units according to a hand of dice. Here is a download to the QRS: PDF link and the website: wargamesdesign.com/rules (I am not affiliated in any way to the author) |
greenknight4 | 10 Apr 2021 6:51 a.m. PST |
Depending on the scale of play you want another possibility is my new rule set "D-Day to Berlin". I have placed the rules here as images for you to have a look at. Chris link
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greenknight4 | 10 Apr 2021 10:33 a.m. PST |
I also wanted to mention Command Boundary Lines. As I recall Spearhead does something with these using their attack direction line. In D-Day to Berlin you must mark out the Divisional Bondary Lines of each Division in your Corps. Battalions may cross these lines a little bit but not much. This system takes control out of the gamer hands and places in the command hands. Tthese boundary lines can be redrawn during the day but it takes a die roll. Night time it is a free change. Here are the rules for Divisional Boundary lines. Thanks Chris
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pfmodel | 10 Apr 2021 5:25 p.m. PST |
The two sets of rules which seems to place a primary focus on command control, which means you have a limited ability to move elements using Command Points, or something similar, is Combat HQ and Kampfgruppe Commander. I think some skirmish rules have a major focus on command control, using cards to determine what you can do or not, but someone with skirmish rules experience will need to confirm this. |
Martin Rapier | 11 Apr 2021 12:57 a.m. PST |
It depends what you mean by "command and control". Most of the rules above have mechanisms designed to stop you commanding or controlling things, whereas the closest to what divisional command staff actually do are the order mechanisms in Spearhead. Arrows and goose eggs and all that. I suppose the effects might come out broadly similar, but many of the unit activation systems are very artificial and predicated on a top down command model which successful militaries dumped in 1916. |
Wolfhag | 11 Apr 2021 8:13 a.m. PST |
I'd imagine units had a standing order to execute until it was aborted by enemy action or changed by upper command. Wouldn't command and control range be the effective range of the radio or in the game they are arbitrary/abstracted? In the game, is there is a bonus for the attacker for attacking at the boundary of two divisions? Wolfhag |
jdginaz | 11 Apr 2021 9:52 a.m. PST |
At Platoon level Chain of Command has very good command & control mechanisms. |
Last Hussar | 11 Apr 2021 9:59 a.m. PST |
A number of examples here aren't C&C rules, they are unit activation mechanisms, for instance BKC. BKC inherited its activation from Warmaster (as did Black Powder). This leads to battalions not doing anything for a few turns if dice rolls are poor. These are often handwaved with reasons like 'Lieutenant with a map' or 'unexpected obstacle'. when there really is no reason for the formation to keep doing the move they were making for the previous turns. It also allows the formations the ability to turn on a six-pence, changing mission every turn. SH 'ride the arrow' seems much more in line with 'Command and Control', though I wonder if even that is too easy to change. 'They Couldn't Hit an Elephant' from TFL for ACW seems a better system than the BKC 'command roll' method. Each formation is given one of 4 orders at the start of the game. These define what they can do. Each turn they try to fulfil that order. You can try to change that order, but it requires CinC to put command into changing it, and you are usually using that 'command' value into rallying units. When I wrote the 'Leader' rules for 'Blood Sweat and Tears' (platoon/company level), I paused, realising I was about to go the BKC 'command radius' route, and that's not what I wanted; I wanted to make the Leader(s) important. I've ended up with them being integral to carrying out platoon orders. i) Units activate not only on their own card, but their Leaders'. Not only does having your replacement mama (ie Sergeant!) or the Rupert close by mean the chance of activation rises from 50% to 75%, but units are allowed to activate twice, once on their own, once by the leader. (Technically, as written, you could activate 3 times, if both the Sergeant and Lt shout at you!) ii) Rallying a unit is easier if a leader is close by, and more difficult if you aren't in shouting range. ("Sarge can't see us, let's just keep our heads down a bit longer") iii) The only way you can close assault is for units to be led in by a Leader. You can shoot at each other all day, but it's unlikely to win the battle; Close Assault wins the battles, and Leaders are pivotal to that. This does mean your Leaders are never where you want them to be! |
monk2002uk | 11 Apr 2021 12:04 p.m. PST |
The xSH command arrow mechanic is not easy to change once contact is made. It is impossible to change before the enemy is sighted. You will come unstuck quite quickly if you hope to make rapid changes during the heat of battle. This is why the pre-planning is so important. Not that the process takes any length of time. It does take a thorough understanding of your force composition, the terrain, and the limited understanding of the enemy OOB, etc. The difficulties in changing plans are even more pronounced in Great War Spearhead, as they should be. Robert |
David Brown | 12 Apr 2021 11:33 a.m. PST |
W, Re "In the game, is there is a bonus for the attacker for attacking at the boundary of two divisions?" There should be, but the main issue is actually identifying where that boundary is! Might be easy in a wargame, very different matter in reality. DB |
Wolfhag | 12 Apr 2021 9:58 p.m. PST |
There should be, but the main issue is actually identifying where that boundary is! Might be easy in a wargame, very different matter in reality. I'm not so sure about that. In the day or weeks preceding a large-scale assault, the Russians were very keen on identifying boundaries by aggressive patrolling and capturing "tongues". It's a function of recon, intel, and SigInt. It was SOP with all nationalities because of the inherent defensive weakness. I'm not familiar with the rules so I don't know how you model or abstract them. Wolfhag |
David Brown | 13 Apr 2021 4:14 a.m. PST |
W, Correct it is a function of recon, intel, and SigInt and talking from personal experience it's certainly not always straightforward. Just because it's an SOP doesn't mean it's easy information to obtain, if at all, and of course, all the while the enemy are actively trying to counter/prevent/distort that very information you are attempting to gather. However I agree with you, that once you eventually have that intel, any attack should receive a significant bonus. DB |