"17e Ligne 1809" Topic

Hello everyone,

I just finished my first post on the 17e Ligne in 1809. I was lucky enough to have an anonymous donor who provided the 2YB folders and Paul Dawson, who provided the XB folders for the 17e Ligne. Without their help, none of this would be possible, so I am in their debt!

I am linking my research from The Napoleonic Wars Forum. link

I have not decided to add any uniform as Paul Dawson's future books will shed light on this subject.

Thank you for looking.
Michael Lint

Cheers Mike,
you really do make the French Army come alive!
*clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap*

[Hey I recently went to my first pop/rock concert in 8 years- I'm *clap* happy ;-) ]

regards from NZ
davew +++

Wondering if Sous-Lt Pierre-Joseph Vidal is one and the same as the Capt. Vidal wounded at Waterloo…

If so, that guy must have had more lives than a cat.

Salut
Le 17e de Ligne a eu une apparition furtive à Thann.
Tu penses le mettre dans ton diorama?
Bernard

Dave,

I can't blame you for clapping if you were able to go to a concert in these times! I appreciate the kind comment.

Musketballs,

Here is Sous-Lieut. Pierre-Joseph Vidal service record and file from Base Leonore link

and the presumed portrait of him taken from Frederic Berjaud's website.

link

Bernard,

Vous avez raison, ils ont fait une apparition sournoise tard sur Français flanc droit. Cependant, ils ont subi le plus grand nombre de tués/mortellement blessés par rapport à l'un des régiments pendant la bataille. La batterie d'artillerie à cheval autrichienne a fait des ravages dans leurs rangs. J'espère que, chaque fois que je peins à nouveau, je vais ajouter ces soldats ainsi!

Thank you for the comments, everyone.
Michael

Thank you for the additional information, and congratulations on a truly impressive piece of work.

Musketballs,

Thank you for the kind comment. Do you mind sharing the story behind Capit. Vidal's experience at Waterloo? I must admit that Waterloo is a little too late for me.

Michael

Ma documentation pour le 17e de Ligne indique:
13 morts et 29 blessés.
Aujourd'hui ce serait un deuil national, pour l'époque napoléonienne c'est anecdotique!
Bernard

Bernard,

Vous avez raison, le rapport du général Morand fait état de 13 morts et 29 blessés. Nous trouvons dans le contrôle des troupes que 11 tués purs et simples, 12 mortellement blessés, 29 blessés, deux rayés des rouleaux à l'hôpital le 19 avril 1809 (très probablement tués ou mortellement blessés). La plupart de ces victimes proviennent de l'artillerie. J'ajouterai plus tard la variété des blessures reçues. En outre, le régiment a perdu 27 soldats tués au combat entre le 16 avril et le 30 avril. Leur petite intervention sur le flanc droit de la bataille leur coûta cher, près de la moitié des tués venant dans le peu de temps qu'ils manœuvraient devant les canons autrichiens.

Michael

Some sense of the casualties suffered by the 17e Ligne from artillery fire.

Killed: Jean-Pierre Morel killed by a cannonball to the left thigh

Mortally Wounded: Auguste-Joseph Vandome left leg carried away by a cannonball

Wounded: 3e Grenadiers Pierre-Joseph Rigaud wounded by a shell fragment

Unfortunately, I've no specific details on Vidal at Waterloo, although his colleague Cpt Andre Bord, another Russia survivor and LdH, managed to get himself both wounded and captured.

The Royal army lists show that Vidal continued his military career long after Waterloo, serving in the 'new' 20e Ligne (ex-Legion de Herault). Chevalier of the Order of St Louis in August 1822, presumably served in Spain in 1823 with the rest of the 20e. Finished his career in the early 1830's as Adjutant-de-place at Bayonne – still a Captain, natch.

Musketballs,

Thank you for the information. I was able to find Andre Bord's service record. He was wounded multiple times and seemed to have always been in the thick of the action.

Just posted the 1st Battalion's information. link

Just a quick update. All three battalions are finished. I am not sure if anyone is interested in me posting the 4th Battalion, but they did serve with Demont's Division at the beginning of the campaign. Let me know if that is of interest.

I will finish the thread with information on the engagements of 17,18,19, and 21 April 1809 and the casualties that the regiment suffered. link

Thank you for looking,
Michael

Oui!
Tout nous intéresse.
Bernard

Great work, and extremely interesting.

Out of interest, do you have any details on why Lt Varlet was suspended from duty? On my (admittedly limited) understanding, this would normally be a precursor to a court-martial?

Doesn't really help that there's two dates there: Varlet's record says suspended June 1810, Labeyrie's record says he replaced Varlet in June 1809.

Musketballs,

I found a document stating he was a prisoner of war on 16 May 1809 and then that he died due to wounds received on 16 May 1809. Sous-Lieut. LABEYRIE's service record in the 2YB files says he was promoted to Lieut on 7 June 1809 and his service record on Base Leonore says 7 July 1809.

So it seems he disappeared, was presumed dead, and then after the campaign finished, details about his death could have been told by another officer or soldier who was taken prisoner with him.

Bernard,

Je vais commencer à télécharger le 4e Bataillon aujourd'hui.

Hello everyone,

4th Battalion is finished as well. Next will be the situational reports. link

Sorry for all of the posts!

This should be the last one that recounts the regiment's strength from April 10 to April 20th, all the casualties from the combats on the 17th, 18th, and 19th April, and the total killed from 15 to 30 April. link

Michael

Hello everyone,

small update on the 3e Battalion 17e Ligne actions at the taking of Landshut bridge on April 21, 1809. link

Michael

Thanks Michael – great stuff as ever

Great Mike,
all this detail and yet they still couldn't paint a flag correctly. Simply amazes my confused mine…

On the horses that HK raised, I understand they're all considered 'private' and were a sort of contract provision- those that were wounded/ invalided/ killed were compensated for upon request usually for the funds from higher authorities. They don't appear to have been 'paid out' from regimental funds.

Very interesting the 'capital/ fixed costs' versus 'expenses' (ie feed/ care) differentiation even at that time.
d

1809andallthat and Dave,

Thanks for the comments. I agree, Dave, that it amazes me how well he painted the uniforms of the Legere soldiers in a "campaign" look but still made the flag incorrect. He even painted General Mouton in the most likely more somber-looking campaign uniform for a general. Still, one of my favorite paintings.

I wish I knew more about horses, but I will search through the documents I have and ask Mr. Dawson about the question Hans-Karl asked.

Musketballs,

I know this is a very late reply, but could you tell me what the Royal army lists are and if they can be found online? I found a few other soldiers taken prisoner on the 16th of May with the Varlet, but no mention in Saski and/or Binder of anything happening that day.

I should be adding this weekend a few documents on the 17e Ligne from April and May.

@MarbotsChasseurs

I don't know if this will help, but maybe ….

Annuaire de l'état militaire de France pour l'année ….
1819-1847
link

État militaire du corps (royal) de l'artillerie de France
1815
link
1837
link
1847
link

État du corps (royal) du génie
1825
link
1836
link
1838
link

Almanach royal pour l'année ….
1814/1815, 1816-1830

Officiers en demi-solde 1817
officiers de l'état-major général
PDF link
PDF link
colonels & lieutenant-colonels
PDF link
chefs de bataillon
PDF link
capitaines
PDF link
PDF link
lieutenants
PDF link

Michman,

Great stuff. A lot of new things to research. Sadly, all of the pdf links are coming up not found.

I appreciate the help.

for pdf links ….

The TMP links work for me with Firefox browser, but *not* with Safari browser.
The target website may have some "defense" against hotlinking .pdf's.

If none of your browsers will connect you, try this :
--- right-click on the link shown here on TMP
--- select "Copy Link"
--- open a new, blank browser window
--- select the "navigation bar" or "url bar" with your mouse
--- right-click on the bar
--- select "Paste" to manually paste the address for the .pdf
--- hit your "Enter" key

======= OR =========

For each .pdf, copy the text below into your browser navigation bar – replacing [c] with colon : and replacing [d] with dot .
Then hit "Enter".

https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/organisation/1817_e_m_general_officiers_demi_solde.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/organisation/1817_e_m_general_officiers_demi_solde_suite.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/organisation/1817_colonels_et_lt_colonels_mi_solde.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/organisation/1817_officiers_mi_solde_chefs_de_bataillon.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/terre/infanterie/controles/1817_officiers_demi_solde_capitaines.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/terre/infanterie/controles/1817_capitaines_en_demi_solde_h_z.pdf
https[c]//www[d]ancestramil[d]fr/cms/uploads/01_doc/terre/infanterie/controles/1817_officiers_demi-solde_lieutenants.pdf

Michman,

Thank you. You were correct. I had to use another browser to view the website. A lot of interesting stuff.

I appreciate your help.
Michael

@MarbotsChasseurs

It is for me to thank you.

I am both humbled by and very grateful for the depth of your research and the quality and interest of your articles.

"Trugarez !" – as my grandfather would say.

Michman,

I appreciate your help and comment!

What a week. I moved classrooms this year, and trying to put everything together and prepare for a new school year has been tough. However, I finally finished my translation of a small document detailing men of the 17e Ligne who were proposed for the Legion d'honneur.

link to Base Leonore file of Joseph Noel

I hope to have all the translations done of the documents Colonel Oudet prepared a month before his death at the Battle of Wagram.

Michael

Below can be found the translation of a document written by Colonel Oudet on 6 June 1809 at the camp of Fünfhausen (Fünfhaus), Austria. This is the second document from 6 June 1809. The colonel was busy taking care of administrative tasks in early June.

The regiment had fought in the battles of April 1809, and the 4th Battalion had fought recently at the Battle of Aspern-Essling on 22 May 1809. Another document shows 1 Major, 2 chef de bats, 2 Capits. 1 Adj. Major, 5 Lieuts, and 5 Sous Lieuts were nominated for promotions on 7 June 1809.

Thank you,
Michael

Simply amazing work, you bring these people alive.

Thank you von W! I learn something new each time I translate these documents.I particularly liked this one because we get to see why the Colonel believed the men proposed for promotion deserved it based on their traits and skills.

Michael