"Horse Holding and how to do it" Topic

These guys have a number of good videos on You Tube but I had missed this one somehow. Its a nice explanation of how Horse Holding was done when the unit dismounted to fight.

Also the compromises that sneak in to renactment. Here the use of ring clips rather that the period mandate of tying reins to each horse.

Note the obvious, that as per Regulations, mounts are held from the saddle and not on foot, as beloved by Hollywood and seen on too many miniatures over the years.

YouTube link

Great video – also good to see how horse holders actually was done rather than in the movies (and, sadly, in most of my ACW dismounted units!)

As I noted on Warlord's "epic" dismounted cavalry figures release, why are manufacturers still getting this wrong in 2021?

Interesting. Curiously, going back two centuries, Streeter's engraving of the Battle of Naseby in 1645, shows dismounted horseholders for Okey's parliamentary dragoons. So it must be possible to hold a small group of horses from a dismounted position, even if regulations indicate it should be done mounted.

I have to confess I have no idea on the rights and wrongs of mid 17th Century practice.

Is it possible that Streeter didn't either, he was after all first and foremost an artist.

I'm not sure where he took the information from for this work, although in terms of the position of units, it is well regarded. Although the piece suffers from some foreshortening when compared with the actual geography.

On the other hand he could have just shown the Dragoons and their unmounted horses in a manner which emphasised their role. Or indeed, if the Sulby Hedges were thick enough to make the Dragoons secure, perhaps on this occasion, having the horses close at hand, dismounted holding was good enough. Maybe they were hobbled? Who knows?

By the 1860's and several thousand miles away, the general view was one man on foot v four pretty substantial horses was not a fair a fair fight! 🙂

Particularly now that the role of the mounted arm in question meant they were now a Cavalry/Dragoon hybrid who wouldn't benefit from allowing their mounts to drag one man in four all over God's Creation every time they went into the dismounted role.

Perrys got it right in 28mm. See their Union and Confederate horse holders

It is harder then it looks!!
First of all you have to be able to get yourself down under the horse while not getting kicked.
Have long enough arms to get around the horse girth
Then the strength, using mainly your legs to lift the horse up and keep him there the time needed.

Russ Dunaway

Yes Perry are good, that's what I have, as it happens.

Russ,

What are you drinking and where do they sell it?

The Perry figures are the only ones that I have seen that do a mounted Horse Holder for the ACW period. Makes sense that the horse holder would be mounted, as I think that would make it easier to control his own horse.

That video was great. I did a fair amount of ACW and IW cavalry for about 15-20 years. Many re-enactment units then did not even dismount at all.

We always linked in my units. Being a horse holder in a re-enactment can be a lot more difficult than in the demo in the video. The horses can be a bit worked up from the gunfire.

For my 25/28mm Sioux Wars, I use the Sash and Saber Civil War horse holder set, discarding the foot figure enclosed. I use one of my regular mounted figures as Number 4, to hold the horses and then three of the Sash and Saber horses beside him. Not perfect, as the horse holder will not be using his right arm as one would expect.

For my 18mm ACW, I use Viking Forge. The riders are separate and the horses have saddles, not the riders. They are listed as 15mm, but they work fine for me with Blue Moon 18mm. They have a pack of limber riders. Some are sitting, so are not helpful, but most are to ride horses. You many have to remove trumpeter braiding, some will and some will not have carbines, and some are even officers. They sell cavalry horses separately and some standing horses. So it all works out. The lack of carbines on some is not a problem as many units had fewer carbines than men.

Tom

Steve and his friends from the 11th OVC are a goldmine of information.

Here is another regarding firearms.

YouTube link

I mentioned this very subject on my Antietam research post in the gallery section earlier this year.

Best wishes,

Chris

I read years ago an account of Confederate cavalry in action. As they prepared to dismount to skirmish they would count off by fours, with the '4s' staying with the horses. According to the author the count went like this:
"Count off by fours!"
"1"
"2"
"3"
"Bully!"
"1"
"2"
"3"
"Bully!"
etc.
Obviously the troopers preferred to stay with their horses.

No one ever remembers that Horse Artillery needed the same. OK I do them for Napoleonics, but that needs some work.

Actually, that's a very good point and the noise from a battery must have been pretty alarming too.

Can't recall if they were supposed to be held any further back or not but even if they were technically, the sound from the guns must have made up for it.

I know the loss of battery horses was often high but I don't recall reading anything that discriminated between mounts and horse teams. Raises an interesting point.

Hello Mr D.

Not everyone forgets.

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Best wishes,

Chris

Well done Chris! 😃

Yes, I will second that. Not everyone forgets…

But I was trying to be so superior….

The few accounts do suggest that train horses felled could be replaced in minutes. The whole traction system for artillery was much more scientific than we could now expect. Undo hooks and eyes, undo belts and links and, in moments, a dead horse is replaced.

Wish this was cross posted to Napoleonics because, even fifty years earlier, there was much more sophistication in artillery limbers, than we would expect from a pre-Industrial age

Yes, but where does one begin?

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Best wishes

Chris

Nice video. A Civil War reenactor/narrator wearing a digital watch. Who knew they had them back then? Superior Union technology. All kidding aside this is a very informative video.