arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 4:34 p.m. PST |
This is beyond bizarre and unprofessional USMC II Marine Expeditionary Force command twitted following remarks about Fox News anchors Tucker Carlson's comments: link
"What it looks like in current armed forces @TuckerCarlson. Get right before you get left, boomer." Extremely unprofessional behaviour. The USMC then offered an apology but this kind of thing should not happen. Whatever happened to having a professional media liaison officer instead of having moron millennials shooting off whatever they want?!? And shouldn't Twitter posts be vetted by a senior officer? ---- EDIT and the whole female maternity flight suits etc stuff is absurd. If you're pregnant you probably can't fit in a cramped fighter cockpit or tank turret. Not to mention all the adverse symptoms of being pregnant such as morning sickness (which for my wife was all day sickness). And would you want to be going into a combat zone whilst pregnant? And pregnant women in combat zone just another medical liability for deployed units.
Woke wars are going to destroy whatever's left of the US ability to fight.
However you look at it, military forces are groups of trained killers who may be killed or wounded themselves! And horrifically so. Their purpose is violence.
That's no place for a pregnant woman or newborn babies!
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Garand | 15 Mar 2021 6:09 p.m. PST |
What about women flight pilots for the transportation arm? Or utility helicopter pilots? I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting putting pregnant women into combat, I suggesting that this is the objective is just being willfully ignorant. Not all women get morning sickness either. My ex never had morning sickness with both of my kids. Damon. |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 6:11 p.m. PST |
Pikeman, But the Marines are meant to be a professional government agency. And comments referring to "boomers" are extremely ageist and discriminatory. |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 6:22 p.m. PST |
What about women flight pilots for the transportation arm? Or utility helicopter pilots? Because those arms too are expected to be able to function in combat zones: 1. Utility helicopters – troop transport, medevac and supply drops in combat zones. Remember how many utility helos were shot down over Vietnam but also Iraq and Afghanistan? 2. Transport aircraft – same as above, as well as paradropping. Indeed in Vietnam many were shot down or destroyed on the ground. 3. Air refuelling tankers can also be intercepted by enemy fighter aircraft or surface to air systems and be required to take evasive action.
In a proper war there's also risk of air bases being struck by missiles or other enemy action. There are not many arms of the military that can expect to be 100% safe and never be put into harms way.
Note even routine flying can be stressful and you want your pilot 100% on the ball.
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting putting pregnant women into combat, I suggesting that this is the objective is just being willfully ignorant. Well actually it stands to reason that you should be able to deploy troops to combat. No point having a pilot or solider you keep on the establishment but cannot deploy because they're heavily pregnant (again noting you probably don't need maternity clothes in the first 3-4 months)! Sure once they've had the child and are ready to return to work, they should be fully supported.
Not all women get morning sickness either. My ex never had morning sickness with both of my kids. Not just morning sickness- also depression/mood/mental health issues, gestational diabetes, anaemia, blood pressure, preeclampsia etc. All common and many can manifest at any time. Not to mention, being in a stressful job can exacerbate medical complications and even result in miscarriage. |
Dan Cyr | 15 Mar 2021 7:08 p.m. PST |
I think the "boomer" comment might be a stab by by a young serving member of the military at the number of well-to-do white males of a certain age who attended exclusive (and expensive) private schools that either hid from the draft (if they're old enough) or chose not to serve as they had more important things to do, but feel free to criticize those that do. |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 7:32 p.m. PST |
Dan, In case your not aware boomer refers to a whole generation of people born between primarily 1946-1965 known as baby boomers. Boomer is a derogatory term used by millennials. Carlson is technically Generation X though to be fair there's not much difference between us Generation Xers and Baby Boomers. As for draft dodging, Tucker Carlson is a lot of things, but certainly not a draft dodger. He was only 4 years old when the draft was cancelled in 1973. In any case the Carlson's not the issue at hand, the issue is a USMC command unit engaging in such behavior.
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SBminisguy | 15 Mar 2021 7:36 p.m. PST |
The real issue here is the rapid and unprecedented politicization of the US military under this current Admin. Current UCMJ explicitly prohibits this kind of activity. There's a reason for that -- when a national military becomes politically allied to one faction in a country, bad things end up happening. So either the US has a non-partisan military that serves the entirety of the Nation, or it has a Banana Republic style armed political faction aligned with the ruling party in power. |
Garand | 15 Mar 2021 7:37 p.m. PST |
If they are not ACTIVELY in a combat zone, what is the problem with women drivers flying the aircraft? The air force has an entire fleet of aircraft dedicated to JUST delivering new or refurbed engines to the squadrons. Why should a pregnant pilot be sidelined when they can be used for that job? Or internal communications jobs in the CONUS? Or any myriad of jobs that do not actively take them into a likely combat situation? The Air Force & other flying branches spends millions in pilot training; why should women be sidelined from these jobs just because they are pregnant? Damon. |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 7:37 p.m. PST |
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arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 8:32 p.m. PST |
Garand, Sure they can do those jobs if medically fit in peace time. However who's to say that tomorrow there's not a massive crisis and the US is embroiled in some nasty slugfest in Baltics or SC Sea or Taiwan Strat? All of a sudden you're cushy CONUS job flying a C-5 or C-37A on milk runs involves flying into an active combat zone to deliver personnel/equipment etc. why should women be sidelined from these jobs just because they are pregnant? Because flying an aircraft still requires peak fitness and health and pregnancy affects health. If you're so pregnant as to require maternity gear, you're probably no longer in peak condition. Also note even civilian non-dangerous jobs like reception often require a doctors clearance especially in later part of pregnancy! Mind you also imagine the outrage if a pilot miscarries following some inflight emergency ala engine/systems failure??! |
McKinstry | 15 Mar 2021 9:07 p.m. PST |
Sure they can do those jobs if medically fit in peace time. My son flew an AH-64 in Afghanistan and he says there were some female pilots who were significantly better than some of the guys. The idea that women per se cannot perform is simply untrue and given 16% of the US military is female, it had better not be. |
Tgerritsen | 15 Mar 2021 9:26 p.m. PST |
Whatever side of the aisle you are on, the military attacking the press via official channels is a line that shouldn't be crossed. That is true whether it is Tucker Carlson or Rachel Maddow If you can only see this via partisan lenses, then you need your partisan prescription checked. The military being used as a political tool of one party against the other is a chilling prospect and should be fought hard against by everyone. Their goal should remain above the fray. The president as commander in chief can make those kinds of statements, though I recall such statements against the press from a very recent president being called unAmerican and out of line. The rank and file should zip it, regardless of how they feel personally. |
Dn Jackson | 15 Mar 2021 9:31 p.m. PST |
Funny how an absolutely unacceptable series of tweets by US military personnel is being turned into an attack on Carlson. It's pathetic that this was allowed to happen. When I was in the Corps we weren't allowed to have an opinion on political matters while in uniform. |
Bunkermeister | 15 Mar 2021 9:33 p.m. PST |
The military should not make comments about members of the press. Any American if he served or not can talk about the government however he wants to, that's the whole freedom of speech thing that the military is supposed to be fighting for, not arguing against. The military should have personnel who are in peak condition and ready for war. During the Gulf War hundreds of deployed women were sent home because they were pregnant. Is that not still the DOD policy? Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 9:35 p.m. PST |
My son flew an AH-64 in Afghanistan and he says there were some female pilots who were significantly better than some of the guys.The idea that women per se cannot perform is simply untrue and given 16% of the US military is female, it had better not be. Never said that. The issue was with heavily pregnant women. |
Garand | 15 Mar 2021 10:02 p.m. PST |
IIRC it is only for women in Trimesters 1 & 2 so not "heavily pregnant." Damon. |
walkabout | 15 Mar 2021 11:24 p.m. PST |
The military is there to protect the constitution, which is what it's doing and did. |
arealdeadone | 15 Mar 2021 11:50 p.m. PST |
Amazing people here don't understand basic professionalism. The issue isn't the Fox guy, it is the USMC response. |
Striker | 16 Mar 2021 3:36 a.m. PST |
I recall the same Dn. In Mississippi during the Ollie North ordeal we were ordered quite clearly that we had no opinion on it and were not to talk about it to anyone. But hey, gotta have something to do since they aren't doing to be intervening anywhere soon. |
USAFpilot | 16 Mar 2021 7:33 a.m. PST |
USMC on Twitter????? The job of the military is not to conduct feel good social experiments. The job of the military is to kill people. Our enemies are watching. |
duke1776 | 16 Mar 2021 8:13 a.m. PST |
Coming from someone who was in the corps within the last decade, overall in its current state even having women at all brings more negatives then positives. They are mostly treated with white gloves by career staff ncos and junior officers and all the way up the chain of command, for fear of sexual harassment. Luckily for me I had a combat mos and never had to compete for promotion. That state of affairs is utter garbage, a Male marine needs 20 pull ups compared to a two minute flex arm hang or whatever it is, give me a brake. This does nothing but create division and less esprit de corps. Women are not worth having in most roles, and anyone who is honest would agree. But of course everyone has a niece or a daughter that is protecting my freedoms and all that, by occupying the capital against Nazis or something. The modern American military bends over backwards for diversity and appeasement to the cultural norms of today for its own detriment. Tuckers larger point is we have adversaries who are no joke. They are not concerned with gender reassignment surgeries for transitioning service members, or xxxl flight suits. They train to win. Russian and China have a culturally homogeneous military with shared values. We have a splintered military of many cultures who agree on pornhub and are clueless of the constitution. Or in the case of others, have forsaken it. |
williamb | 16 Mar 2021 8:44 a.m. PST |
The twitter response by the lower ranking officer was definitely not professional and should not have been made. Senior military commanders did respond to Tucker's comments. link The Israeli military has had women in it almost from the beginning. video released last week by IDF youtube channel YouTube link |
Irish Marine | 16 Mar 2021 8:59 a.m. PST |
I joined the Corps in 86 and left in 2010 as a Gunny, I did 13 years active duty and the rest in the reserves. All my time was in the infantry, an anti-terrorists, Counter Intelligence and a body guard to two 4 star Admirals. Now, what Carlson said was an opinion, some based on fact but mostly opinion. In my opinion based on my experience 90% of the females in the Marine Corps are well meaning but pretty much useless, the other 10% are really good but still can't replace a male Marine. The Chinese and Russians are preparing for a war against another conventional power not a bunch of simple savages. The Chinese are on a campaign to butch up their male population because they feel they are getting soft, Hell, we are having a hard time figuring out which bathroom to use. I was in the CincLant Fleet HQ as a bodyguard to the four star, and I would hear and see large groups of female sailors get pregnant so they wouldn't have to deploy get a beach assignment then after a month get an abortion, same with female marines. I haven't met one female yet in the Corps that could beat down a male Marine in a fight. We are not going to find females soldiers mixed in with Russian or Chinese infantry but we can't say the same. There is no equality in the services, and the most notable example is the first day of boot camp, I still remember getting my head shaved, the girls can't say the same; right from the start the service has stated without words women are different, and it doesn't end there. The military is being turned into a politically correct arm of the government. |
Legion 4 | 16 Mar 2021 11:43 a.m. PST |
As for draft dodging, Tucker Carlson is a lot of things, but certainly not a draft dodger. He was only 4 years old when the draft was cancelled in 1973. You can tell he was not of draft age, when the draft was in effect. The real issue here is the rapid and unprecedented politicization of the US military under this current Admin. Current UCMJ explicitly prohibits this kind of activity. There's a reason for that -- when a national military becomes politically allied to one faction in a country, bad things end up happening. BINGO !!!! The modern American military bends over backwards for diversity and appeasement to the cultural norms of today for its own detriment. I have noticed that … those in charge are very much from other generations … The military is being turned into a politically correct arm of the government. Sadly very true … Those that want to "reimagine" the USA to fit their ideas. Seems to include the military as well LEOs. The job of the military is not to conduct feel good social experiments. The job of the military is to kill people. Our enemies are watching. BINGO !!!! But some, albeit not all, get that. E.g. when it was decided to open up combat arms to females about over a decade ago(?). Again being a former Infantry Officer, serving in 4 Infantry Bns, '79-'90. I may see things differently than others. Bottom line IMO no one in the military should have tweeted or whatever to anyone in the media. With comments like this. You are not to do such unprofessional things. |
Irish Marine | 16 Mar 2021 11:55 a.m. PST |
I don't see any problem with the Corps responding to Carlson, but it should have come from the Public Affairs Officers. |
Legion 4 | 16 Mar 2021 12:02 p.m. PST |
Yes I agree if anyone is going to say anything … it should be a PAO. |
Jcfrog | 16 Mar 2021 12:50 p.m. PST |
Females in armed forces which part is supposed to fight or get in harms way, which should be nearly all (see Fr 1940) have nothing to do there, or at least should be required the same things as the others. There should be a reason for the requirement. An army is meant to fight, a necessary evil, with the best efficiency for the amount of wealth spent on it. Nothing else. |
Irish Marine | 16 Mar 2021 1:17 p.m. PST |
Another point, or I should say "rant" is the draft. Females are not required to register for selective service, once again we are distinguishing between the genders. If we do fight against Russia or China and its prolonged we might need a draft considering the "gentle" nature of most of are young men. If the draft is started and females are still exempt does that mean men who pretend to be females are now exempt as well? |
mckrok | 16 Mar 2021 1:53 p.m. PST |
News media talking heads – and most other Americans – get to espouse their opinions for better or worse. It's their first amendment right. Service members agree to limitations on their first amendment rights which technically includes retirees such as myself. Who said life was fair? pjm |
Tgerritsen | 16 Mar 2021 4:23 p.m. PST |
As a Navy veteran, I do disagree that the primary task of a person in the military is to kill. I never saw my job that way. My job was to defend the United States. My oath wasn't to kill anyone. If I could defend the people of the United States without killing, that was preferable. We trained to do it, and if called upon to do it we dared not hesitate to do it and trained to do it well, but I never saw my job as being a killer. Soldiers are NOT killers, they are defenders who won't hesitate to kill if called upon to do so in carrying out that duty. Sorry if this offends you. |
arealdeadone | 16 Mar 2021 5:16 p.m. PST |
Tgerritsen, The plain truth is the military's primary role is the use of violence to achieve a government's objectives. Military are state sanction killers, so are executioners or special operations police. I don't begrudge them for it. Necessary functions for the operation of a state (and I would be happy if they brought back the death penalty to Australia). I always find it interesting that American soldiers view themselves as defenders when the last god knows how many wars have had not much to do with defending America and have only tenuous links to anything resembling American interests. |
Thresher01 | 16 Mar 2021 5:57 p.m. PST |
Tucker is spot on. Those in the military attacking him, should be drummed out of the service and prevented from ever serving in it again, since we don't tolerate politics in our military, or shouldn't. The US military has been infected with a very virulent strain of PC-virus, and there is apparently no vaccine, or any research into one. Of course I.M., following current vectors to their logical conclusion, those identifying differently will of course be exempt from combat. |
Irish Marine | 16 Mar 2021 6:02 p.m. PST |
Tgerritsen, I'm not offended, but it reinforces my belief that there is the Marine Corps and then everyone else. |
Legion 4 | 17 Mar 2021 8:24 a.m. PST |
Soldiers are NOT killers, they are defenders who won't hesitate to kill if called upon to do so in carrying out that duty. Sorry if this offends you. Don't offend me … But I remember from Day 1 at the US ARMY Infantry School we learned our mission as Infantrymen. IIRC : The mission of the Infantry is using maneuver & fire, close with, kill, capture, and destroy enemy personnel and equipment. But again most branches of the military are not combat arms. As we know the "tooth to tail ratio" is large, IIRC 10 or 15 to 1 … On the qual ranges we fired at targets shaped as the outline of humans. The US military learned, you don't want marksmen. You want someone who will engage a human target that is the enemy. Now again, I may be biased. After serving in the 101, among all those Vietnam[and even a few Korean War]Vets in the units. Most senior officers and NCOs wore CIBs and Combat Unit patches on their right shoulder. Then 2 tours on the ROK DMZ, where the war was not over. Only a truce since '53. Some may have got a bit, etc., upset in the past the way I talked about my training and experiences, etc., in the Infantry. But that is the way we were trained, etc. In many cases by Combat Vets. In the Infantry and I'm sure it was the same in Armor, FA, etc., combat arms branches. We were expected if/when called upon we knew our jobs and were trained to execute them effectively. it reinforces my belief that there is the Marine Corps and then everyone else. Yeah in the Army Infantry & Tanks we let the USMC believe that … We don't get upset about it … |
Ravensworth | 17 Mar 2021 9:51 a.m. PST |
Tucker Carlson is a moron. Sorry but he just is. His opinion is somewhere to the right of Mussolini and his goose stepping fascists friend. |
John the OFM | 17 Mar 2021 10:30 a.m. PST |
Tucker is one of the many reasons I stopped watching Fox News. Other reasons include Hannity, Ingraham, etc. Let's face it. Any and all "opinion" television hosts are annoying blowhards, wether it's CNN or Fox. You MIGHT get "real news" from 10:00 AM TO 4:00 PM, if you're lucky. |
USAFpilot | 17 Mar 2021 11:07 a.m. PST |
Tucker Carlson is a moron. Sorry but he just is. His opinion is somewhere to the right of Mussolini and his goose stepping fascists friend. Any facts to back that up? "In July 2020, Tucker Carlson Tonight broke the record for highest-rated program in U.S. cable news history," Sounds like a lot of people listen to his opinions. |
Murvihill | 17 Mar 2021 1:36 p.m. PST |
The military has physical standards, when a pregnant woman is unable to meet them they need to be grounded, just like everyone else. Those standards are not designed for normal flight, they are designed for the worst possible scenario (when the plane is falling out of the sky) and that is the time when the best physical specimen is needed. It also can't be predicted. That is why the standards are there. |
John the OFM | 17 Mar 2021 1:37 p.m. PST |
Since when ratings an indicator of truthiness or quality? |
USAFpilot | 17 Mar 2021 1:54 p.m. PST |
Since when ratings an indicator of truthiness or quality? Agree with your statement in principle. Now, since you are implying that he does not tell the truth, can you give us a few examples of his lies? |
John the OFM | 17 Mar 2021 2:05 p.m. PST |
I recall what Mary McCarthy once said about Lillian Hellman. |
USAFpilot | 17 Mar 2021 2:35 p.m. PST |
So you can't. Just like the main stream media; just repeat something over and over again devoid of facts and some people will believe it. How does the old saying go; you can fool all the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time. The truth eventually gets out, even though one side is busy trying to censor it. |
John the OFM | 17 Mar 2021 2:52 p.m. PST |
Even Fox News doesn't believe anything Carlson says. link To save themselves from a lawsuit, Fox says you shouldn't believe him either. That's a hell of an endorsement. Rather than defend him and the truth of what he says, Fox throws him under the bus. Then, they back up over him, just to be sure. It would be much more difficult to find an instance where you could believe what he says. Let me supply you with a pearl clutching gasp. "But that's just NPR!" Go look up the trial on Google. I can't be bothered. You have a much harder job defending him. |
arealdeadone | 17 Mar 2021 3:30 p.m. PST |
Some may have got a bit, etc., upset in the past the way I talked about my training and experiences, etc., in the Infantry. But that is the way we were trained, etc. In many cases by Combat Vets. In the Infantry and I'm sure it was the same in Armor, FA, etc., combat arms branches. I think there's a real issue with people in military recruitment marketing trying to downplay the violence aspect. Here in Australia military service is portrayed by recruitment ads as helping people, having mates and a challenging work environment. They don't even emphasise defence and many ads don't show any weapons. I think it creates poor expectations amongst recruits many of whom then don't cope with anything. Eg the Navy has issues with post traumatic stress and drug use. How the $%^& do you get post traumatic stress disorder serving on a ship or even land base and never seeing combat (last time Australian Naval ship came under fire was in the Korean War). Heavens forbid a real shooting war starts – I suspect most of the RAN would surrender in a fit of mental breakdowns. To be fair I also work in mental health and it's amazing how many modern nurses/doctors can't cope with the work or even their boss reprimanding them or even telling them how to do their job.
Modern westerners leave much to be desired… |
Thresher01 | 17 Mar 2021 3:54 p.m. PST |
Some people can't handle the truth, facts, and logic. That's what Tucker provides in quantity, and why he is villified by the left. |
Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Mar 2021 4:07 p.m. PST |
Even Fox News doesn't believe anything Carlson says. Well, no. He exaggerates for effect. It's a style. It's obvious when he is doing so. |
Inari7 | 17 Mar 2021 4:18 p.m. PST |
The military has always been used as a test bed. From the inclusion of African Americans, at first segregated and then desegregated. Allowing non-citizens to serve in the military. Allowing females to serve first in non-combat roles to semi-combat roles. Letting homosexuals serve in the military. The changes in our social dynamics are often first incorporated into the military years before it becomes the social norm. There will always be pushback from people who think they know better then the leaders who allow these changes. The USMC should have not commented on Tucker's remarks that's not their place. Tucker a couple of hundred years ago would have argued that African Americans are not fit to serve. In another hundred years this argument will look quaint. Remember not too long ago the Germans were not laughing at the prospect of facing the Night Witches, and Lyudmila Pavlichenko. |
deephorse | 17 Mar 2021 4:57 p.m. PST |
He exaggerates for effect. It's a style. It's obvious when he is doing so. To you, maybe. To the other 3 million that watch him, not so obvious. John Oliver did a nice dissection of Carlson the other night. But I guess that not many here will have seen that. |
USAFpilot | 17 Mar 2021 5:07 p.m. PST |
Pretty funny that some people get their "news" from late night comics. Tucker a couple of hundred years ago would have argued that African Americans are not fit to serve. Do you make racist comments much or are you just making stuff up like the fake msm? |
Inari7 | 17 Mar 2021 6:10 p.m. PST |
"Do you make racist comments much or are you just making stuff up like the fake msm?" It may seem racist now but I assure you it was a real point of contention especially during the civil war on both sides. For being a member on a "historical" miniature gaming website ya might wanna brush up on your history! LOL |