"The Black Baron: Hitler's Secret Weapon" Topic

"Michael Wittmann was considered as one of the greatest Nazi tank commanders of WW2. Having served in the Battle of Kursk he was redeployed to Normandy soon after the D-Day landings. Receiving The Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross from Hitler himself, Wittmann was considered a cult hero with the Nazi propaganda machine embellishing his already well known achievements…"

YouTube link

Armand

Well, he wasn't a baron and he wasn't a secret weapon, other than that . . .

Was he even a Nazi?

It 1990s Panzer-Porn repackage with modern graphics. 'Hi-tech' lipstick on a pig.

Was he the first MIB ?

The Nazi regime glorified Nazi soldiers for propaganda purposes and attempting to push the anti-Communist and Jew hate points to its population and its captive population. If you lived long enough in combat, the Nazi press would find you. Some even lived long enough to survive the war, but most did not.

All countries did to a point, but the Nazis had an advantage in that they had individuals that managed to survive longer in continuous combat than other countries(other than the Soviets).

Wittmann, like the "Red Baron" of WWI, managed to survive years of combat, making him the statisical survivor out of millions that fought, until some unknown enemy solider/airman, not knowing that his target was a "hero", just killed him.

Yes, he was both a member of the Nazi party and the SS.

Wittmann, like the "Red Baron" of WWI, managed to survive years of combat

Wittmann was relatively unknown even to Germans until the summer of 1943. He was, so to speak, nothing to write home about'. He just happened to be one of the individuals in the right place at the right time when the myth of the wunder-waffen (Tiger tank) and Uber-soldier (The SS) was being crafted. Relentless 'bigging-up' of his every action and shameless over-claiming elevated him to the status of a god to the home audience but alas his fame never spread beyond the reach of German bayonets. No Allied soldier had ever heard of him so from his debut in the Nazi newsreels in July 1943 to his demise in Aug 1944 he had no chance of being known to the Allies as a 'black baron' or any other cloying post-war fabrication his acolytes care to come up with.

And, to be less flattering, he drove around in a Tiger tank, more heavily armed and armored than his opponents for several years until he went up against tanks with equal powerful guns (if not armor) like the 17 pdr.

I'm sure he was skilled, but a hero, no.

There are a number of articles in German that are rather scalding in their comments about him as a tactical leader and skilled commander. Read section "Assessment as tank commander" in link: link

Wittmann was a brief flash-in-the-pan. From his elevation to super-soldier to death (July 1943 to August 1944) was just over 12 months. Though his 'success' in a Stug. is much-mentioned it is very hard to find any verifiable information about this part of his service.

Come to that, he wasn't even black …

Come to that, he wasn't even black …

Should that really matter in life?

All lives matter … unless they are trying to kill you than they are only targets.

His gunner Bobby Woll should have gotten much of the credit.

Wolfhag

His gunner, BobbyWoll, should get a lot of the credit.

Wolfhag

@Legion 4

I'm no woke SJW, but don't buy that 'all life matters' stuff either.
You probably noticed I have a soft spot for you guys allthough we won't agree on a lot of things, I guess.
Nobody will ever change anyone's views on the internet, if that one doesn't want to change or at least consider it.
All one can do is to be civil and let all say what they have to say and protect the right to do that.
Everything else will just end in bad blood.
At last this is a hobby forum, allthough it is impossible to stay away from such questions.
I grok that, but it is a slippery slope.

…
Oh, my comment above was just dark humor and word game, have to practice my english a bit, ya know?

…
By the way, I think mkenny and Dan Cyr are right, Wittmann's Tigers were perseverance propaganda of a doomed regime.

If I want some unusual hero, I prefer soldiers like Aleksandra Samusenko.
Aleksandra Samusenko on Wikipedia

So Legion 4, have some fun.

I'm no woke SJW, but don't buy that 'all life matters' stuff either.
You probably noticed I have a soft spot for you guys allthough we won't agree on a lot of things, I guess.
Nobody will ever change anyone's views on the internet, if that one doesn't want to change or at least consider it.
All one can do is to be civil and let all say what they have to say and protect the right to do that.

I understand where you are coming from. As you can tell I'm no woke SJW either. And frequently get attacked for it on Facebook. But yes no one is going to change anyone's mind on the net. The "adult" thing to do is agree to disagree and move on. I know many of us here do that.

But some think it is proper to call you all kinds of names as you don't see things the same way they do. Facebook is full of those types …

And yes, I think I have noticed you do have a bit of "soft spot" for some of us Vets/Soldiers, etc., types. If I am correct … I thank you … 👍👍🖖

Oh, my comment above was just dark humor and word game, have to practice my english a bit, ya know?

I too am a fan of dark humor … but sometimes it does not come across well over the net. When I was a soldier, many of us used "dark humor" … often … 😎

If I am correct

You are.

but sometimes it does not come across well over the net

That is a problem for sure.
But if there is a will to do it, a few more sentences here, one more question there goes a long way.
👍

You & I think alike on many topics it seems … 👍👍🖖👌

@Legion 4

Staying peaceful, not taking oneself too seriously and considering others might be right too?

I guess so.

👍

👍✌