"Tango's contribution" Topic

I often visit TMP to get a kind of 'snapshot' of the hobby. I don't really search though blogs, websites, Facebook or whatever to find stuff that might be interesting and as such I found Tango's posts very useful. I certainly didn't look at them all (who would have the time?!!!!) but I definitely found a lot of interesting things that I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

Well the harmless diversion of reading trivia just disappeared <sad panda>. Thanks for all your efforts Armand

As one of Tango's main supporters over the decades…YES, he does drag the dead for three days moose into TMP from time to time.

But he also, MORE than makes up for it.

Bring him back into the fold and apologize for what was done to him.

Unconscionable!

I'm not a big Tango fan, well his posts that is. I'm sure he is a great person. I put him on ignore so that many of the threads I'm following are not forced off of the front page too soon.

Then when searching for some topic on the message boards I run across some pertinent and very interesting posts by you guessed it, Tango. So I remove the ignore.

After a while I see that many of the threads I'm following are quickly forced off of the front page. I put him on ignore.

Its a fully repeating conundrum.

Obviousily, this CharlieFoxtrot was the result of a few people who feel that their opinion matters constantly whinning at the editor about Tangos posts.

And yes, I didn't read everything he posted, but I read enough to find his input very beneficial to this site.

Bill. Please reconsider. Tango's posts are an integral part of the site now. Not everything catches my interest. But many of the posts do. If it is buried, and that is what it seems, the site becomes less interesting. Do his posts really make people leave the site? If not, let him be.

I'm much more of a lurker than a poster and I usually keep my opinion to myself. That said, I know that I will be here less than before the change. Now I can come once every 4 or 5 guys and keep up with any new posts.

I will miss what Tango brought to my attention.

Same for me too

So, the OFMs won, Tango has done his duty, can go and TMP lost just another reason to visit it, right?

…
Well, dear sovereign just insert the target coordinates of the knee you want to shoot and select the prefered type of nuke:
nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap

…
And thank you for my next five days in the Dawghouse, defending Tango01 by citing snippets of my postings out of context and deleting the whole posting so nobody can read the context.

I guess the crazies over at frothers have a point in case.

Bill, just went cruising through the website specifically looking for these links. If they're indeed throughout the website they are very well hidden cause I didn't find any.

Are you looking in the lefthand column? Where it says "Featured Link"? I see them all over TMP now. Right now, I'm seeing:

Featured Link
Bob's Miniature Wargaming Blog

The only thing that bothered me was the shear volume that overwhelmed everyone's elses posts.

If it is buried, and that is what it seems, the site becomes less interesting.

Hardly buried. FEATURED throughout the website.

If Tango no longer wants to post, that is his decision.

While I have to admit I'm more than impressed and heartened by all the support for Tango's restoration to the forum in this thread, let's not forget the reason Bill created TMP in the first place over 20 years ago when he realized his dream of creating a "web-magazine for miniature wargamers." Since Tango's first visit to this web-magazine over 10 years ago he's posted 170,024 times (43.5 per day average). Think about that for a second. Nobody comes close, not even the recently dawghoused John the OFM who's been frequenting TMP for much longer. Yet despite his having checked off all 16 Zones-Of-Interest boxes in his member profile we still don't know what game(s) Tango plays, what scales and rules he likes or, indeed, even if he plays miniature games at all because he has never used TMP the way most if not all of us do: as a way to obtain hobby-related info or to simply share our passion for miniature gaming with like-minded individuals.

Whatever services Tango provided on the TMP forum until a couple of days ago before being moved to the Links Directory, while interesting in many cases no doubt, are not directly related to miniature gaming or relevant to a "web-magazine for miniature wargamers." They are tangential at best. The 43.5 posts that Tango inundates us with each and every day are akin to the news AI and programmed algorithms provide for the new wave automated journalism (aka "robot reporters") news outlets that are changing the ways people consume their news today because they produce larger quantities of information at faster speeds than human reporters and journalists can, even if sometimes they end up recycling old news.

Sorry, but I'm with Bill on this one. TMP should return to its roots and become what it was originally meant to be.

Ok, Bill, I'll bite. I'm trying to meet you half way here. You say that the links are featured throughout the site. You later say they are listed in the left hand column.

I just went through the left hand column and see nothing of the sort. The only thing I see is an item buried in other items titled, ‘Links' and if I click that I get a list of categories. Click one of those and I get another list. Now I can click those to finally see the link.

That's four clicks deep just to get to a link, and then I don't know what it is until I click it. From a usability standpoint, that is nowhere near as convenient as glancing through all the topics and skipping the ones that don't appeal to me. I have to know what category I want tos earth before even getting to the proper sub directory.

From what it sounds like, you are seeing something completely different than us end users. Either that or what I just described is how you intend it to work. Either way, that is hardly embedded throughout the site.

I'd be happy to send you screen shots of what I see so you can either correct it or point out my error, but at the moment how I see the links as described above is completely untenable.

Even if you don't like Tango at all, what I am pointing out affects all links, not just his.

So, if I understand correctly, Tango has been pushed off the main page at the request of some members to improve the site? Please correct me if that is not correct. A rough count of the posts in this thread that showed a clear opinion looked like 33 pro-Tango vs 4 anti-Tango. What gives?

We want Tango! #freetango

I'm going to wait and see how it goes, but so far I am disappointed with TMP without Tango. My supporting membership ends in a few months and if the site isn't very entertaining any more I doubt I will extend it.

Going through my now "old" threads a bit … I find myself pleasantly surprised that the Aladid of the defense of the new move in TMP … Mr Fanatik … has been one of the most prolific commentators on them .. How strange that he defend with such fervor and zeal my exit from the Front Page now when he could have used the Stifle button and not suffer such ignominy … perhaps he commented so much in my threads as a gesture of pity? …

Thanks Fanatik!… (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Most Esteemed Editor;
Are you referring to the menu item "Featured Link" that appears in the left hand menu bar? I've gone through the 16 links that I've clicked on this evening and found this item on 6 of them. When you click on it, you are told who posted it and are given a brief description of the ink as well as the link itself. I must admit I hadn't seen this item until this evening when I went in search of the "Featured Link" you mentioned. I first found it when I clicked on my profile page and then started to see it about every 3rd topic.

So if I understand this correctly, if Tango sends in a post with a link, it will go into a database of links and may or may not pop out in the left hand menu bar (having no idea what criteria is being used to pick on item for this feature). I won't know that Tango posted it until I look at that specific item.

Is this correct?

Frankly I expected to go to the left hand menu bar and find a title of "Tango" that if I clicked on it would provide a list of all the links he has sent that day along (and understanding that most of the time the only way you knew what the topic was usually was in the title Tango gave that post – which in itself was often an excerpt from an article or blog). That way a person could decide whether or not to browse through that information.

Of course that is not what I eventually found. I'd like to better understand what you mean when you say his supplied links will be provided throughout the site.

Re: whether or not Tango's post should be on the forum or not, his input definitely fits into one of the categories you listed that the Links Directory is meant to cover. As several posts say, your house, your rules.

As for whether or not his posts are germane to miniatures, there are several other contributors who post articles that have nothing to do with miniatures and, in my mind, should be in TMP Plus. But you and the other editors are the final decision as to what gets posted where. I just feel that in one or two cases it's the pot calling the kettle carbonized.

I will add to the chorus of people who said they will miss Tango. I often did not click on his posts or links because I just wasn't interested but then along would come something which turned out to be a gem or introduce me to someone's blog I did not realize existed.

I don't understand the whole bruhaha, but am sad to see that Tango01s posts will no longer be on the main pages.

That is a loss for TMP, since he came up with a lot of interesting stuff of interest to many.

I don't see Featured Links. I do see the links, and it is not worthwhile at this time compared to a Tango post. What am I missing that makes this a good thing?

Starfury Rider +1

Wow. So the anti-Tango brigade finally won. Seems like we are all equal, but some less so. Such a shame that one person is being persecuted like this. A sad day indeed.

Bring Tango back.

I have always enjoyed Tango's post. Please bring him back to the front page.

Tango gave useful links that i would have not used without him.
TMP is poorer without him.
Bring him back.
Lorenzo

I didn't realise it was about ten years ago that Tango first started posting on TMP. I had a read through some of the earlier 'for and against' debates on TMP Talk and some of them could have been written yesterday.

I don't think there's any way to reconcile the two standpoints. I don't think Tango will voluntarily make any modifications to his posting style or volume that might address some of the criticisms. Would you, Armand?

And I don't think that it's fair for Tango to be uniquely shunted off to the sidelines. It does smack of targeting. Has there been a major change in the forum rules and regs that now means his type of posts can no longer be made on the forums? I tend to post links to external sites as well, normally within the confines of a discussion, and I honestly don't know if affects all use of links in posts?

I can live without the repeated posts/links, and most certainly without the nuclear tipped debates that have been started by Tango and almost always left to others to fight out and get penalised for. When it comes down to it, he's either breaking the house rules or he isn't, and when he has/does he should be liable to the standard penalty associated with the infringement. If the rules have changed I would appreciate some clarification on the matter.

I don't know why he posts in the style he does. I don't know that his position as Apex poster on the site actively discourages other people from posting. Equally I don't think it's a massive positive if he's the only reason some folks come here. Personally I think forums are at their best when people can ask for answers and assistance and receive it in turn.

I wonder if we'll be back here in 2030 (alien invasions allowing, of course…)?

Gary

I first cried "BRING TANGO BACK!, so this is not a new vote in favor, but I wish to concur with the point that having each of his posts on the usual list of items gave me the chance to view them or not singly and as they appeared.

Trying to find them via multiple clicks away from the Main Page is a subtle, if perhaps unintended, way to bury him and all that he offers.

Again, why does it seem like Rocket Surgery to some to exercise their Stifle rights and make TMP what they want it to be for themselves? Why foist their tastes on the rest of us? Indeed, why is a significant minority dictating to the obvious majority?

Please, Bill, bring him back as a service to those who appreciate the new and unexpected.

TVAG

Limiting Tango is a big mistake. Like strangling the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Okay. You folks who are all whinging on about Tango being gone really are missing the point.

The Featured Links works just fine. I've used it as Bill described and it's fine.

If Tango wants to go off and have a sulk, that's Tango's problem. He's not "gone"…he's just been moved to his own area.

Not a particularly hard concept to grasp, really.

Eric

Finally, a TMP policy that I can wholeheartedly agree with. I'm more than happy to see Tango shunted off to a siding that I will never, ever, visit. Rarely did I find his efforts interesting, and, to judge by his frequent posting of exactly the same topic and link that he posted just a few days previously, did he. Link, after link, after link. With no comment or discussion on his part, other than to sometimes wonder why no-one has found his post interesting enough to comment on it. It's as though some form of gratification was being sought through this activity. Maybe, on the vast majority of boards that I never look at, his postings had some value. All I can say is that on my boards of interest his behaviour was just a nuisance. I hope he doesn't return to them.

Do some of you never stop and wonder why this Tango-like behaviour is not tolerated on other forums?

I never clicked on all of Tango's posts, only the ones that interested me. But the ones that interested me were (obviously) of value.

Since this back-handed ban occured, I've noticed I have fewer threads I read now. As of yesterday (Friday) I clicked on a total of 3 threads…including this one. The other two had a total -- together -- of 5 posts. today I clicked on nothing. So I am a little skeptical right now how this move will improve the content on this site, for me at least.

Damon.

I have found time and again very useful sites mentioned by Tango. Those I found through the "front page" of TMP. I do not understand the way this new "feature" works and I am absolutely not interested in the need to study because I am much too lazy (and much too not interested in computer things) to do that. I like to paint and collect tin soldiers (or perhaps the other way around ;-)) !
About the claim that "the community decided": democracy means that the majority can tell its wishes but that a wise government decides whether or not a minority will be hurt by fulfilling them. Please bring back Tango !

I'm confused (not that difficult, I admit)

For years, the accepted wisdom was that stifle/ignore was the appropriate way for those that felt that Tango's prolific posts spoiled their enjoyment of TMP.

So what has promoted the change?

I hope this decision will be reversed.

I think many of his posts are valuable but the volume seems to dilute other posts and dialogue that are not just fire and forget.

Bill,

Please restore the TMP we know and love.

You keep saying,

The links are featured throughout the website.

It is not clear what you mean to the rest of us; we're not seeing it. The best I have come up with is that Tango's posts have become so diffuse that we can't find them. The drill-down structure of your new links directory makes this painful. The point of the front page summary was always finding new stuff in one place efficiently, not looking for random "Featured Links" all over TMP.

Rick

This new links idea seems like a lot of work for all involved but I'm not sure how much from TMPs end but a quick check from my side gave the same result as Tgerritsen.

I have many of the message boards turned off so my front page isn't exactly full everyday. I think Tango's post affect people differently depending on how they use the site. I didn't have a problem with his posts and found some great blogs to follow through them.

Here's a thought. Maybe rather than a links directory there's a Links message board that would have sub boards by topic. You could opt-in and have it show up on the home page.

I like the way TMP works and prefer it to most other forums and it's good to see Bill is working to improve the members experience.

Thanks

Tango's are really the main posts I read on here!

Bring him back Bill please.

Cheers Roger.

No Tango, No Cash!

Would it be worth running a poll?

It would make more sense than asking who was our favourite historical Communist. It would inform the membership that this problem has arisen and allow some degree of democracy, with a small D.

Tango is not above criticism and I have done so on this forum, over his posting with no "added content", his responses which seem computer generated and often unrelated to the earlier responses and his repetition of the posts of others, often only days before, his posting of pictures from sites that particularly express a wish to the contrary.

But, for me, none of this matters. I have a choice. He presents me with a mass of info, under the headlines that I want to follow. He leads me to blogs, however hostile to him, that I would never have seen. I can criticise him, but he accepts that and sends me friendly PMs.

He is a take him or leave him phenomenon. To effectively exclude him is a mistake.

Would it be worth running a poll?</p><p>It would make more sense than asking who was our favourite historical Communist. It would inform the membership that this problem has arisen and allow some degree of democracy, with a small D.</p><p>Tango is not above criticism and I have done so on this forum, over his posting with no "added content", his responses which seem computer generated and often unrelated to the earlier responses and his repetition of the posts of others, often only days before, his posting of pictures from sites that particularly express a wish to the contrary.</p><p>But, for me, none of this matters. I have a choice. He presents me with a mass of info, under the headlines that I want to follow. He leads me to blogs, however hostile to him, that I would never have seen. I can criticise him, but he accepts that and sends me friendly PMs.</p><p>He is a take him or leave him phenomenon. To effectively exclude him is a mistake.

Something odd happening here.

If this message appears three times it ain't my fault. If it does not appear at all, the no problem for you I guess;

Would it be worth running a poll?</p><p>It would make more sense than asking who was our favourite historical Communist. It would inform the membership that this problem has arisen and allow some degree of democracy, with a small D.</p><p>Tango is not above criticism and I have done so on this forum, over his posting with no "added content", his responses which seem computer generated and often unrelated to the earlier responses and his repetition of the posts of others, often only days before, his posting of pictures from sites that particularly express a wish to the contrary.</p><p>But, for me, none of this matters. I have a choice. He presents me with a mass of info, under the headlines that I want to follow. He leads me to blogs, however hostile to him, that I would never have seen. I can criticise him, but he accepts that and sends me friendly PMs.</p><p>He is a take him or leave him phenomenon. To effectively exclude him is a mistake.

Are you looking in the lefthand column? Where it says "Featured Link"? I see them all over TMP now.

I read this site on my phone. To make things readable, I have to zoom in so that the left column disappears. To me, sticking something over there is effectively the same as removing it entirely.

Is there a way to turn on featured links? I am just not seeing them while clearly some are. I usually leave everything turned on, so if this an opt in feature- where do I go to check that?

Bring back Tango! I had no difficulty with his postings.

I'm 50:50. As I am with Tango's posts, largely because at least 50% are simply not about wargaming. Maybe the issue here is the fact that Tango posts anything he sees that has a vague military connection. If he applied some kind of filter by asking "is this actually relevant to wargaming?", Bill would not be put in the position where he needs to intervene.

The thing that I find most problematic about the volume of posts is that other people's posts are rapidly pushed off the front page and on the individual boards. I appreciate you COULD use a filter, but I've never known any online forum where it is necessary to do so. This is an issue peculiar to one poster who, sadly, seems unable to apply any self control or discrimination regarding the quantity and quality of content.

I'm 50:50. As I am with Tango's posts, largely because at least 50% are simply not about wargaming. Maybe the issue here is the fact that Tango posts anything he sees that has a vague military connection. If he applied some kind of filter by asking "is this actually relevant to wargaming?", Bill would not be put in the position where he needs to intervene.

The thing that I find most problematic about the volume of posts is that other people's posts are rapidly pushed off the front page and on the individual boards. I appreciate you COULD use a filter, but I've never known any online forum where it is necessary to do so. This is an issue with one specific poster who seems to be unable to apply any self control or discernment with regards the quantity and quality if what he posts. It's simple really, just post the 50% that is relevant to wargaming and then nobody will have an issue.

Is all this chaos at least partially due to the,…ahem, recent complaints by certain members regarding Tango's postings?
This whole thing smacks of censorship!!

We want Tango! #freetango

I'll second that sentiment!!
Seems to be a tsunami of support for Tango, I am heartened to see that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but recent posts suggested that Tango was a bot. Does a bot issue personal posts such as he has over this issue?
While I don't always clic on Tango's posts I do search for them to see if the topic is of interest, or as Tango likes to say at the head of some posts:
"Of Possible Interest."