Tango01 | 23 Feb 2021 10:49 p.m. PST |
"The peace agreement between the United States and Taliban signed in Doha last February is likely to be scrapped if the US and North Atlantic Treaty Organisation unilaterally decide to stay in Afghanistan beyond 1 May, the withdrawal deadline set in the agreement. With a presence of around 10,000 troops, including a remaining 2500 American troops, the 30-nation NATO has indicated it is likely to continue its mission training Afghan security forces in Afghanistan. Last week, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced that member state defence ministers have deferred their decision on troop withdrawal. "Our presence in Afghanistan is condition-based, and the Taliban has to meet their commitments," he said…" Main page link Amicalement Armand
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Legion 4 | 24 Feb 2021 8:28 a.m. PST |
Fence it in like in the movie "Escape From New York" … And let them to continue to slaughter each other … If is looks like AQ or ISIS is planning something that may effect the West. That is why we have drones and cruise missiles. Don't worry about CD. If they don't why should we ? |
Murphy | 24 Feb 2021 8:34 a.m. PST |
Anyone who believes the Taliban are going to honor any deal is an idiot, and didn't study the history of South Vietnam 1973-1975… |
Oddball | 24 Feb 2021 9:24 a.m. PST |
Leave, Taliban will not be faithful to the deal, but does it matter? Once they reimpose the 13th century on all those they can control, they might not be too excited about harboring another group that says "Hey, I got a great idea. Let's go attack the great Satan again, using your land as a base." The new leaders of the Taliban might not be so inclined to support such a group for fear of a return and just concentrate on stomping on their own infidels. |
Bismarck | 24 Feb 2021 1:56 p.m. PST |
Legion +1. I still am one of the radioactive melted glass advocates. |
14Bore | 24 Feb 2021 2:15 p.m. PST |
It's a wasteland, the population can't be updated so leave it. |
Whatisitgood4atwork | 24 Feb 2021 2:38 p.m. PST |
If we go there will be trouble. If we stay it will be double. |
Legion 4 | 25 Feb 2021 9:53 a.m. PST |
Looks like Germany may be ready to stay … link |
Tango01 | 25 Feb 2021 1:01 p.m. PST |
Thanks!. Amicalement Armand |
arealdeadone | 25 Feb 2021 2:54 p.m. PST |
"Hey, I got a great idea. Let's go attack the great Satan again, using your land as a base." Courtesy of great US policy, Islamic terrorists have a whole heap of countries to pick as bases – Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Iraq, Mali etc (ref: Libya) etc etc. In fact it just dawns to me the Americans have been promoting market competition and thus freedom. Instead of being confined to one failed state for its basing needs, the modern terrorist has many to chose from each with its own specific product offerings. Yay for freedom. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 25 Feb 2021 3:03 p.m. PST |
I feel bad for the Afghan security forces trained by the US to maintain order in Kabul because they're all "dead men walking." |
USAFpilot | 25 Feb 2021 4:40 p.m. PST |
I too feel sorry for all our allies throughout our history who we have betrayed. From walking out on the South Vietnamese Army in ‘73, to abandoning our Iraqi English-Arabic translators after President Obama pulled our combat troops out of Iraq. The United States just doesn't have the "will" to win wars in the modern era like we did during WW2. Because of this lack of will power there is no point in keeping our troops in harms way in this forever war. |
arealdeadone | 25 Feb 2021 4:50 p.m. PST |
USAFPilot, Doesn't help the US enters wars without an end game. WWII was easy – destroy Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Every major war since hasn't had a concrete end game, except Desert Storm 1991 where the US goals were clear (kick Iraq out of Kuwait). The US has even been unwilling to acknowledge enemies. Saudis fly planes into buildings, Saudi Arabia doesn't even get a dressing down. China takes over SC Sea, US doesn't even acknowledge it until the place is crawling with Chinese military outposts. Even Vietnam had no real end game. In Korea the end game kept changing and the US never fully committed to it – in fact they merely prolonged it by drip feeding it. Etc etc. |
Legion 4 | 25 Feb 2021 5:59 p.m. PST |
FYI just saw on the news … a US Airstrike just hit an Iranian supported militia in Syria. I think they may have fired the weapons that hit US personnel the other day. Waiting for an update. I feel bad for the Afghan security forces trained by the US to maintain order in Kabul because they're all "dead men walking." Most of them would have been dead men walking regardless … IMO … |
USAFpilot | 25 Feb 2021 8:46 p.m. PST |
arealdeadone, I basically agree with you. I'd add that WW2, while certainly not easy had clear objectives. In fact we went beyond just destroying nazi Germany and Imperial Japan; we helped successfully rebuild them after the war. A major difference between military operations of the past and today is that we weren't too worried about collateral damage and political correctness back then. When WW2 was over, every German and Japanese citizen knew that they had been beat. As for the first Gulf War of 1991, I'm not so sure the end game was that concrete. Yes, we accomplished the mission of expelling Iraqi forces from Kuwait. But then we left much of our forces in the region for the next ten years enforcing "no fly" zones at great cost. Our troop presence in KSA was one of the reasons AQ attacked us on 911. We've been stuck in the ME even since. |
arealdeadone | 25 Feb 2021 10:10 p.m. PST |
n fact we went beyond just destroying nazi Germany and Imperial Japan; we helped successfully rebuild them after the war. Those were postwar goals established as Cold War was heating up. Original plan was to turn Germany into a backward agrarian state with no industrial capability (Morgenthau Plan).
But then we left much of our forces in the region for the next ten years enforcing "no fly" zones at great cost. Agreed, it was at this point US policy and military completely lost the plot and became completely disconnected from reality. I |
soledad | 26 Feb 2021 2:38 a.m. PST |
I think it is difficult to compare WWII with the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. WWII was against an opponent that was much like "us", a normal industrialized, christian country. The recent wars are "against" an opponent that has a very different culture, religion and way of life and outlook on life. Therefore our way of thinking and our definitions of victory are very different from theirs. Kind of like playing football but counting the score like in basketball and using rules from baseball. There will never be victory in Afghanistan in the way that we define victory. The Afghans will, most likely, never be like us for the very simple reason that they are brought up in a very different way. not much more strange than that we will never be Afghans or want to live like them. |
USAFpilot | 26 Feb 2021 8:34 a.m. PST |
WWII was against an opponent that was much like "us", a normal industrialized, christian country. I didn't realize that Imperial Japan was a Christian country. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 26 Feb 2021 9:23 a.m. PST |
Insurgency wars (aka guerilla wars) are harder to "win" than wars between industrialized countries like WWII because of the "David vs. Goliath" syndrome. The underdog basically has little to lose and can play the long game, bleeding the giant with "a thousand cuts" until the giant grows tired and decides to go home. I remember in HS one of the teachers have us talk about current events in class. One time I chose a news article about guerilla warfare and before I could start discussing it, this other girl said "I saw two gorillas fight in a zoo once." |
Legion 4 | 26 Feb 2021 10:18 a.m. PST |
Well that says it all … and I'm sure you will find similar in classrooms today. |
USAFpilot | 26 Feb 2021 11:45 a.m. PST |
Reminds me of a fighter pilot who went to the hospital for a neck injury. Was asked by the nurse how he hurt his neck. He said it happened during a dog fight. She instantly took on a nasty demeanor and later commented to him that he shouldn't be fighting with dogs. |
Legion 4 | 26 Feb 2021 4:19 p.m. PST |
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USAFpilot | 27 Feb 2021 2:11 p.m. PST |
soledad, I pretty much agree with your premise in regards to fighting a war against an industrialized nation versus fighting an asymmetric war against an enemy which does not wear a uniform. Many issues and complications; many volumes written about this. |
USAFpilot | 27 Feb 2021 2:49 p.m. PST |
Not sure why my previous post was not at the bottom of this thread. Bugs in the system? |
soledad | 27 Feb 2021 5:07 p.m. PST |
@USAFPILOT Germany and Italy was , I was mainly thinking of them. Of course Japan was not christian. My mistake I should have been clearer and more specific. |
Legion 4 | 27 Feb 2021 6:16 p.m. PST |
I was surprised to find out there were a few Christians in the ranks of IJFs. But the numbers were small … But they fought and in many cases died like many of IJFs. |
79thPA | 01 Mar 2021 11:54 a.m. PST |
I'm not sure that a thousand odd Germans hanging around for another year are going to make any difference. |
arealdeadone | 01 Mar 2021 5:22 p.m. PST |
against an industrialized nation versus fighting an asymmetric war against an enemy which does not wear a uniform. And both Germany and Japan were actually industrially weak compared to USA, Canada, USSR etc. Italy wasn't even an industrialised power in any meaningful sense and Romania, Hungary and other Axis allies were pathetically weak. Remember Canada alone produced more trucks than the whole Axis! War would have been a different kettle of fish if the Axis was nearly as industrialised as the west. |
Legion 4 | 01 Mar 2021 5:32 p.m. PST |
I agree … Gen Food Gen Motors Gen Electric |
Tango01 | 21 Jun 2021 9:27 p.m. PST |
Former Afghan President Karzai Says Country Will Be 'Better Off' Without The U.S. Military link
Armand |
Legion 4 | 22 Jun 2021 8:09 a.m. PST |
Well … he may be right. But the USA leadership had not seem him as a very good leader. He was not and proved it, to be less worse than the rest … at that time. We shouldn't take advice from someone like him … IMO … |
Tango01 | 24 Jun 2021 9:32 p.m. PST |
650 U.S. Troops Will Remain In Afghanistan To Protect Diplomats After The Pentagon Completes Its Pullout link
Armand |
Barin1 | 25 Jun 2021 6:25 a.m. PST |
Seen in the local news – Taliban succeded in its push to Afghanistan northern border with Uzbekistan and Tadjikistan. Some of their attacks forced a large group of tribal militia and border guards to cross into Uzbekistan (on 24th), however they were returned back. Today Uzbekistan has put its forces on full alert. They're not in a joint protection pact with Russia (Tadjikistan is there) so the situation is getting more complicated. I've even seen an interview with a military expert, that withdrawal of US troops and large quantities of military hardware lost to Taliban recently are part of the US plan to destabilize the region. While it looks almost as crazy as the claim about Russians buying the heads of US soldiers, it will indeed create lots of problems in Central Asia. ODKB (mutual protection alliance of some of FSU countries) is planning to meet to discuss the situation in Afghanistan next week. |
Legion 4 | 25 Jun 2021 8:17 a.m. PST |
Saw the same about 650 US Troops as stay behinds on Military.com … link Also more news from Military.com from A'stan … WH to evac afghans who helped US … link Leaving interpreters would be a disaster …
link I've even seen an interview with a military expert, that withdrawal of US troops and large quantities of military hardware lost to Taliban recently are part of the US plan to destabilize the region. He's an expert ? Seems more like a propagandist … Destabilize the region ? I think that is has been happening for a few decades … or longer … |
Barin1 | 25 Jun 2021 8:57 a.m. PST |
well, we also have people neck deep in their cold war world. But if you look at the result of this Afghanistan campaign, it definitely didn't stabilize the region at all. Uzbekistan was supporting the action, they were helping Northern Alliance back then, so they rightfully think that Taliban will want their revenge. I'm more inclined to the version of " we have no clue" than " we've deliberately broken everything and now all of you will suffer the consequences" in regards to this campaign, but again, there's too many of various interests involved. For example, Afghanistan was a part of Chinese "one route" campaign. Leaving the country to Taliban will make their plans more difficult, or might even drag them into the conflict. Then there's infamous TAPI gas project that looks like a huge scam and bribery affair, but it is financially supported by a very diverse bunch of countries and banks. And now, all of a sudden, Turkey wants to go in, I guess they have their delusions of grandeur after their small proxy war in Karabakh… |
Legion 4 | 25 Jun 2021 9:04 a.m. PST |
well, we also have people neck deep in their cold war world. Good point … I'm an old school Cold War Warrior myself… So is Putin !! 😁😆 But it ain't gonna make us BFFs ! 😏🤩 |