"The Myths of Vietnam" Topic

Of possible interest?

Free to read
PDF link

Amicalement
Armand

Disappointing. Only a fraction of the PDF relates to the title topic. Much is personal opinion with only six references cited. So much is about the POW/MIA controversy. There are whole books on Myths of the VN War far better set out than this. Unheralded Victory or MIA, Mythmaking in America.

I was surprised to see the POW/MIA flag was still being flown at the recent Presidential Inauguration. I presume this continues due to more recent conflicts and MIAs? The flag clearly instead shows a POW and a guard tower however.

We/many in the USA generally still fly the POW/MIA flag at many events and locations.

It covers all POW/MIA in general. But came out after Vietnam. We have had 2 MIAs that I know of from Iraq. And probably about 1800+ from Vietnam/SE Asia and probably a few thousand from the Korean War.

The US has an agency that continues to look for MIAs. From all Wars. Occasionally North Korea lets us in and we do find some. And even WWII MIAs show up in downed/missing aircraft. etc., that were lost during that war.

Even in places like the PI and PTO still revel some. In some locations in the PTO, e.g. Tarawa, the dead were buried and graves marked. But later after the battle, USN, etc., bulldozed over everything. And put up runways, structures, etc. to continue the war effort. The search continues there and many have been found. Thank God we don't do things like that anymore !

Even in the PI some former camps where allied POWs were held by the IJFs. A similar thing has happened. At one structure on one of the island's of the PI. On that locations a gov't building was built over the graves from the POW camp after the war.

The US POW/MIA Recover Tm recently went there and was allowed to excavate. The PI employers were glad to to see this. As they said they see ghosts of the dead POWs all the time. Many of the dead were being found and sent to a lab in HI that runs the DNA, etc.

The search worldwide continues …

IIRC the USA still has around 3000 from WWI …

So no we don't forget them …

There actually is a National POW/MIA Recognition Day here in the US.
This year it is Sept 17, 2021. The day was established in
1979 by President Jimmy Carter. Each subsequent president
has followed with a proclamation. The day is always the third
Friday in September. You still see the flags flown beside or beneath the American flag, even at businesses who have flagpoles.

I had no idea this continued. Good for you, folks, to remember like this.

I was struck when visiting the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Wash DC to hear there will never be another one, with modern DNA profiling of remains.

Next time I see that flag I will know better. Thanks

If they don't stop DNA testing there may not be any:
link

Wolfhag

I see what you mean. I read several (actually far more than that) of the linked sites about the controversy over DNA analysis of remains regarded as "unknown". It seems so obvious, until you read them. I can even understand the opposition to the idea from the families.

Poor kid was 24. My three sons are older than that.

Actually that was fascinating, however sad. Thanks for that link. Fascinating (and it was in the 90s also when we visited the site in DC and watched the poor US Army guys in full rig do their 30 minutes rota duty in attendance)

You are welcome deadhead,
As Legion said, the US has a dedicated agency that will continue to search for MIA's around the globe. I'm not sure if other countries have something like this. Recently they recovered a few Marines on Tarawa that were identified. These guys will trek through jungles, deep-sea dive and negotiate with former/current enemies to recover every one of them. There could be more interned there in the future.

link

Wolfhag

I do not think the 3rd Infantry Regiment, better known as
the Old Guard would consider themselves or the honor of guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier as "poor army guys in full rig". Hope someday that comment is made in front of one of their veterans or current soldiers. Of course, I just
consider the source.

The 3rd Inf Rgt members have strict height standards, etc. IIRC they have to be 6 ft. or over. They believe it is an honor to be chosen/selected for that unit. And of course it is …

A few years back at one of our Military Officer Assoc. of America dinners. The speaker was a former member of the Old Guard. I even think he wrote a book ? Very interesting!

Also the movie "Gardens of Stone" made probably 20+ years ago. Is about this unit during the Vietnam war. Worth watching. James Caan, James Earl Jones, Angelica Houston starred in it. Check it out deadhead … Pretty entertaining, interesting and much seemed accurate to me. But I was just a 5'8" line Dawg Grunt …

Legion, you are right about height standards. I worked for a Korean War vet who afterward served in the Old Guard. He was
6'6'. That is the oldest unit in US Army service. Just as spit and polish as the Marine Corps silent drill team and those
stationed at the Marine Barracks at 8th and I.

Sorry, I was unclear. By "in the 90s" I meant the temperature, not the decade, and civilians were flaking out in the heat. The Guard, in full dress and motionless, indeed aroused our respect.

Yes the summer heat & humidity in the South of the USA can be horrendous. And wearing Dress Blues plus marching, etc., only makes it worst. That makes them that much more than they are.

Having spent much of my time in the South when on active duty. When not overseas. The best thing is to wear Jungle Fatigues and Boots, drink a lot of water and hopefully stay in the shade.😓 Of course that always was not possible … So get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Sadly at times some troops die from heat stroke. Fortunately none of mine. But we medevac'd a number and in turn saved their lives.

The heat and humidity can be a killer.

Some units were not so lucky. Or sister Bn in the ROK near the DMZ lost 2 or 3 from heat stroke. Very sad …

Just thought of one.

Myth Saigon……

Boom boom……

The Marines have their own Burial Detail:
from link

If you can squat more than 300 pounds -- and then do it again nine more times -- the Marine Corps may have an elite job for you.

The Corps is accepting applications to join its legendary cadre of body bearers, a small unit of roughly a dozen men headquartered at Marine Barracks Washington, D.C., whose primary responsibility is to carry the caskets of Marines to their final resting place.

According to a Marine Corps administrative message, the service is looking for Marines who "possess a high degree of maturity, leadership, judgment and professionalism, as well as physical stamina and strength." To be eligible, Marines must be male, between 70 and 76 inches tall, in the rank of corporal or below, and able to serve 30 months following check-in to ceremonial drill school.

The physical strength requirements are truly daunting. Marines must be able to conduct 10 repetitions of the following exercises:

Bench press 225 lbs.
Military press (a variant on the overhead press) 135 lbs.
Straight bar curl 115 lbs.
Squad 315 lbs.

Those selected to join the Body Bearers Section can expect to train for up to a year before they're considered ready to participate in military funerals. Once they join the section, body bearers participate in the funerals of Marines, Marine veterans and family members at Arlington National Cemetery and military cemeteries in the National Capital Region; they may also be asked to travel across the country to conduct funeral honors for former presidents and other senior dignitaries.

There's no room for error; the word "flawless" is used no fewer than four times on the Body Bearers Section web page. And while other services use eight body bearers to carry coffins, the Marine Corps uses only six.

"This billet is not for everyone. Marine Corps Body Bearers serve as a tangible, physical manifestation of the institution that our fallen brothers and sisters have poured their hearts and souls into fortifying," the page reads. "As such, the mental, emotional, and physical toll this responsibility exacts from the Body Bearers as well as Ceremonial Drill School students is immense. That being said, the honor and pride the Body Bearer Section takes in caring for Marines the way they do is one of the most gratifying experiences of their lives."

In addition to all the strength requirements, Marines must meet conventional height and weight standards and maintain first-class scores on their physical fitness and combat fitness tests. While the job was once reserved for infantry Marines, it's now open to all military occupational specialties in the Corps.

Their "practice" involves a team of 6 Marines lifting a 400-pound practice casket to their shoulders multiple times.

Wolfhag

I worked for a Korean War vet who afterward served in the Old Guard. He was
6'6'. That is the oldest unit in US Army service.

I knew a couple of tall, well built, etc. guys in the Army that were in the Old Guard. They looked like recruiting posters.

Yes, the Old Guard, 3d Rgt of Infantry has been around since the AWI. They also have a defense of the WH, etc. mission if need be …

Wolf,
I never realized that the Corps had a special Body Bearers
Section. I always thought they were pulled from the Detachment at Eighth and I. I did know that a unit within the Marine Corps Barracks detachment ran daily to the Tomb of the Unknown and
polished the brass Marine Corps emblem there. Thanks for the info.

Glad to see you are back from "being away".

Sam

Well I saw them guarding the Unknown Soldier in DC, on a day when the TV had advised against leaving home as the temperatures were record breaking. The heat wave made national news every night and they stood to attention, in full dress and absolutely motionless. I did not know their origin then, but had to ask how did they do it?

The risk of passing out is actually greatest in the tallest and fittest, because they run a low pulse rate and easily get postural hypotension. Our Brigade of Guards will lose a guardsman or two every Trooping of the Colour in front of Her Maj (and they are marching!)

Bismarck,
My son told me about the Body Bearer unit and the workout they do every day. It's true about the Marine Corps emblem being polished each day as I saw it when I visited the Wall.

Wolfhag

When I was on Active Duty, many times nearby Army units were tasked with being a Color Guard, Firing Details, etc., for Vets' burials/funerals. We even did it when I was in ROTC. All the family had to do is request thru the proper channels, etc. Of course we were nothing like the Old Guard. We wore our dress greens …