Uesugi Kenshin | 17 Feb 2021 9:52 a.m. PST |
I recently came across a TMP post where several people were adamant that the Soviet Union had no T-72s in any of their formations located in Germany in the 90s. However, Battlefront Miniatures' "Team Yankee" game lists them as being present in several army lists or TOEs. Does anyone have a say in this? In particular I'd be interested in the period from 85-89. I'd like to get this sorted out before I buy a S-ton of T-64s ;-) |
nickinsomerset | 17 Feb 2021 10:29 a.m. PST |
None at all, except for the NVA, in GSFG. 2,20, 6Indep Tk Bde and 3 Shock Army were all T-64. 1GTA and 8GA in the south converted from T-62 to T-80 in the early/mid 80s. Most armies in WGF(GSFG) converted to T-80 during the late 80s. US Int believed that T-72 would be replacing T-62 in the south but this was down to a mis id, not before a load of recognition posters were produced and team Yankee written! CGF had T-72 and T-64. Tally Ho! |
Uesugi Kenshin | 17 Feb 2021 11:39 a.m. PST |
Good stuff Nick, thank you very much for the quick & informative reply. |
Perun Gromovnik | 17 Feb 2021 2:31 p.m. PST |
Soviets had T-72 in Czechoslovakia not in East Germany |
Dan Cyr | 17 Feb 2021 8:41 p.m. PST |
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Uesugi Kenshin | 17 Feb 2021 9:57 p.m. PST |
Thank you Dan, that's excellent details! |
pikeman666 | 18 Feb 2021 4:57 p.m. PST |
Wasn't the T64 a pretty good tank, but had issues with the auto loader? The Czech army mighty have been unreliable, but I thought the GDR troops were considered a viable threat. So lack of the T72 is an interesting detail to investigate. |
Perun Gromovnik | 19 Feb 2021 9:54 a.m. PST |
By some sources T-64 was better then T-72. I wouldnt care much about reliability in wargaming but in reality it would be like many time in history-bouth side minor armies would fought as long as they could and after thing get wrong they would say "it wasnt our war" or something similiar. I remember one book on Stalingrad battle: Austrians was there and fought regulary until they surendered and first thing they said was "we are Austrians, we were forced into army" |
Uesugi Kenshin | 19 Feb 2021 10:50 a.m. PST |
A nice little blog on the subject from a fellow wargamer: link |
nickinsomerset | 19 Feb 2021 12:47 p.m. PST |
In the 70s Sov units in GSFG had teams of civilian engineers attached because of the mechanical problems with the engine. These had gone by the early 80s. Tally Ho! |
Fred Mills | 19 Feb 2021 1:12 p.m. PST |
Excellent links, Dan Cyr and Uesugi Kenshin!! So would this be more or less correct? 20th Guards MRD (1st Guards Tank Army), c.1988 Tank battalions in the motor rifle rgts: T-62s 1st Gds Tank Rgt: T-64s 20th Independent Tank Btn: T-64s With all transitioning to T-80s by 1989-1990, as CFE indicates all T-80s by mid-1989. Thoughts welcome! |
Perun Gromovnik | 19 Feb 2021 3:25 p.m. PST |
Here you have interesting data: link |
Fred Mills | 19 Feb 2021 7:03 p.m. PST |
Thanks, Perun Gromovnik. Much appreciated. I'm aware of that excellent site and have certainly used it. It gives a force mix for 1985 (mostly T-62; some T-80) and also for 1990 (all T-80), but not for the intervening transitional years, nor the unit breakdowns/transition dates, and whether (as I believe to be true) the Tank Rgt and Ind Tank Btn had different tanks, and for how long. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 20 Feb 2021 6:45 p.m. PST |
Note the TY game is based on the novel by Harold Coyle bearing the same name, in which Capt. Bannon's M1 combat team went up against mostly T-72's and some T-62's. The latest V2 game expanded it to include mid to late 80's equipment. Ironically also earlier tanks like the T-55AM, which was previously only available to East Germans and other Warsaw Pact allies such as the Czechs and Poles. So I don't think BF is too concerned with matching equipment to the exact timeframe. |