"Unknown Weapon?" Topic
12 Posts
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16 Feb 2021 5:26 p.m. PST by Editor in Chief Bill
- Changed title from "Unknown Weapon" to "Unknown Weapon?"Removed from Ultramodern Gaming (2012-present) board
- Changed starttime from
16 Feb 2021 12:13 p.m. PST to 16 Feb 2021 12:15 p.m. PSTRemoved from Ancients Battle Reports board
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robert piepenbrink | 16 Feb 2021 1:14 p.m. PST |
Reading The Book of Abigail and John--selected letters of John and Abigail Adams, largely to one another. It's sometimes pointed out that John Adams somehow missed participating in the French and Indian War, but both of them had acquired a basic military vocabulary by the outbreak of the AWI. References to ranks and positions, to different size units and to light infantry and light cavalry pass back and forth without either one feeling an explanation is called for--until the Congress votes to send a unit of "Rifle Men" to Boston, and John has to explain, not just that that they're light infantry, but that a rifle is a species of gun, and what manner of gun it is. Surprised me. I thought they were just uncommon in New England, but from the tone of the discussion they must have been effectively unknown, at least in Massachusetts. So for me, no more stray rifles north of Pennsylvania in or prior to the AWI, even in skirmishes. Also, some clever and hard-working fellow might want to take a look at the post-Revolutionary period. Did serving alongside rifle-armed units and reading about riflemen in the newspapers mean more New Englanders and New Yorkers had such weapons in time for the War of 1812? Always something new. |
historygamer | 16 Feb 2021 5:44 p.m. PST |
Rifles were hard to produce. They were one-off weapons, and took a long time to make. They were primarily made in Pennsylvania by German craftsmen – Lancaster, York, Carlisle, etc. Most New Englanders carried fowling pieces – smoothbore weapons. Can't say much about 1812. |
John the OFM | 16 Feb 2021 6:58 p.m. PST |
American Revolution mythology relies heavily on backwooddsmen hiding behind trees with their rifles etc. |
robert piepenbrink | 16 Feb 2021 8:29 p.m. PST |
Yeah, historygamer, I knew that. But rifles were known in England for a century before the AWI. I'd have expected them to be rare in New England--but not so completely unknown that you'd have to explain to educated people with an interest in military matters that they were a weapon. |
advocate | 17 Feb 2021 2:29 a.m. PST |
Nice observation, Robert. |
Brechtel198 | 17 Feb 2021 5:28 a.m. PST |
The United States developed an excellent rifle that was produced at Harper's Ferry. It was the model 1803 and between that year and 1807 4,023 were made. The caliber was .54 and the barrel was 33 inches long; overall length was 49 inches and it weighed 9 pounds. There was no bayonet. By all accounts it was an excellent rifle and the production of the weapon was resumed in June 1814. The regular US riflemen in the War of 1812, beginning as a single regiment, later expanded to four. The most famous rifle commander of the war on the American side was Major Benjamin Forsyth, who was eventually killed in action on the northern frontier. See A Most Warlike Appearance by Rene Chartrand and Green Coats and Glory by John Fredriksen. Both are excellent references. |
historygamer | 17 Feb 2021 8:14 a.m. PST |
I agree. Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it. :-) |
arthur1815 | 17 Feb 2021 8:23 a.m. PST |
Perhaps he was just 'mansplaining'? |
79thPA | 17 Feb 2021 9:21 a.m. PST |
I'm kinda thinking the same thing, arthur. It would be interesting to know who the letter was addressed to. |
robert piepenbrink | 17 Feb 2021 11:18 a.m. PST |
Sorry, I thought I covered this. He was writing to Abigail, but he does NOT explain light infantry, light cavalry, company or regiment, any more than she explains captain or adjutant writing to him. They both seem perfectly conversant with 18th Century military English--until John tells her about the raising of the 1775 rifle regiment, and from the way he describes it--not quite right about rifling, among other things--it looks as though the concept of rifled weapons was new to him as well. Which, as I wrote, suggests that rifle-armed militiamen would have been not just uncommon but virtually non-existent at least in coastal New England during the Revolution. That raises my point about the War of 1812. Yes, we know about the regular US rifle regiments and to a degree the uniformed militia. But a lot of the War of 1812 takes place in small skirmishes along the coast as British landing parties try to secure water or fresh food, or to inflict random property damage while the outraged locals try to prevent these things. Will the northeast still be exclusively smoothbore in 1812? Or will the experience of the Revolution have encouraged some of the locals to secure a longer-ranged weapon? Put in RPG terms, does one need a different encounter table for British landing parties there than for, say, Georgia or Louisiana? Sometimes I forget how local the pre-radio world was, and this is even the pre-telegraph world. |
Virginia Tory | 17 Feb 2021 12:05 p.m. PST |
I suspect part of it was that part of New England was fairly well settled. Not much call for a rifle. I think they were not as widespread as popular mythology has led people to believe. The vast majority of "light infantry" were musket armed until you start seeing things like the rifled-musket of ACW fame. A rifle was a specialized weapon. |
Major Bloodnok | 19 Feb 2021 6:48 a.m. PST |
One thing to remember, a fowler can "multi-task". If hunting deer you can fire buckshot or ball. If hunting birds, various sizes of birdshot. It will also answer as your mandatory militia arm. In other words a fowler gives you more bang for your buck. |
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