"The first Motti?" Topic

As I was reading an account of the Battle of Teutuburger Wald, it suddenly occurred to me that the tactics used by the Germans was pretty much exactly those used by the Finns so often during the Winter War.

Did Arminius' snipers fill their mouths with snow so their breath wouldn't steam?

My reading of the "battle" was that it was an extended ambush. Day after day of picking off stragglers wandering in an unfamiliar forest. Finally the Germans put up a barrier and challenged the Romans to cross it. The hungry, cold, and demoralized Romans failed, and the Germans gave the death blow. As a result, three legions and their auxilia were wiped out and Augustus could not get over it. "Varus, Varus, reddite legiones meas!"

I was admittedly reading a coffee table style book.
It described the battle as the Romans being in a long line of march in a dense forest. After a bit they were blocked at both ends and tended to bunch up. The Germans attacked the smaller bunches first and worked their way up to the bigger bunches.
That sounds kind of like a Motti battle to me

The Teutuberger Wald battle was a very interesting example of a guerilla ambush against a more conventional force. Really a classic in insurgency warfare. The Germans knew they probably wouldn't have fared well in open battle with the highly trained Roman Legions.

But they used the terrain to their advantage. To negate the Roman tactics. As we know Arminius, the German leader, was trained as a Roman Officer. He knew their tactics, strengths and weaknesses, etc. He basically "defected" and went back to his people. And get revenge for what the Romans did to his people.

The History Channel has a series called " The Barbarians". They spend a number of episodes on Arminius and the ambush in the thick forest.

When I was in [West]Germany during a REFORGER. My Mech Co. did some dismounted movements in some thick dark forests. As we moved I was reminded of the Tuetuburg.

Having trained with the 101 in Panama as a Rifle Plt Ldr being deployed there 3 times to the Jungle School. The thick dense Darien Jungle was an easy place to get ambushed. Then years later in [West]Germany I found similar. But no monkeys in Germany in the trees throwing their dung at you.

Legion 4
You bring up yet another similarity*
Mannerheim had been a Russian Corps commander in WWI
I dare say he knew the Russians every bit as well as Arminius knew the Romans.

* – I am not saying they are exactly the same, just that they appear to me to be quite similar and share many aspects in common.

Indeed … I agree very much so.

" Know your enemy … ", Sun Tzu