"Line of Sight and Fog of War Blinds" Topic

In my games, each side has 30-40 blinds, with only about 1/3 of them representing actual units. The beginning of the battle is a little bit of a chess map of scouts and light vehicles attempting to determine enemy forces and positions.

My one gripe is that any gaps between terrain templates make it almost impossible to do any real maneuvering without being spotted.

I think this is the age old problem that open space on the game table is effectively a manicured "lawn".

Where I live, if I go outside, the only time I can see a long way is if I'm standing in an actual crop field. Everywhere else has so much random scattered trees or bushes that even if they aren't close enough to count as "rough terrain" they still obscure vision.

Now in a game, I don't want to have to weave my line of sight between individual trees and bushes every time a unit moves.

What do others do?

I do something similar although my blinds are fewer and can each contain from zero to several actual units.

My rule had been that the instant a blind moves out of cover its contents must be revealed. But I recently decided that because crossing small areas of open ground is really only a fleeting glance, and that the spotting unit is probably not the enemy commander, it's plausible to just say that as long as my blind ends the move back in cover that its contents are not revealed. Only if the blind ends the turn in open ground is it revealed.

So you don't even let vehicles remain hidden if they are in the open behind buildings or forests?

I feel like it's important to be able to perform flanking maneuvers without the enemy knowing what you are until contact.

Oh yes, sorry about that. Everything I said above should have started with "assuming they are in enemy LOS". If there is no one around to spot them units remain hidden even outside of cover. Spotting can be done either by visible units or by the blinds that contain something. (Really my "blinds" are just tokens on the table not large cardboard pieces like in the Two Fat Lardies rules which is where I've heard the term blinds used.)

Given that you have a lot of empty blinds how do you handle spotting?

Your question is what I am currently struggling with.

In my last game, we just assumed that all blinds are scouts that will not engage in combat and are immediately removed if spotted. It worked but it also felt like it was too easy to use them.

I'm thinking about making it so that you can only spot with actual units but that leads to the predicament of having to decide whether or not you want to spot as doing so reveals that you have an actual something able to spot.

My blinds are similar to stratego pieces but have a magnet on them so they can hold up to 4 tags referring to elements. No reference sheet required.

Okay so your blinds are pretty similar to mine in that they can represent multiple units. I think you should go ahead and try it with fewer blinds. I feel it's working for me although I have only been able to arrange two play tests with other people. And that was before CV. But in my mind there is a lot to be gained just by not knowing whether there is an AT gun in that blind of not! Anyway I'm interested to hear how you get along.

I completely agree with you. Even if the fog of war isn't perfect, it allows the use of AT ambushes.

I don't even know how bazookas and panzerschreks can be used at all without fow.

This is when/where you need a GM.

Hex map movement and fake counters will work. Then, just set up the game table to play the encounters out with your minis. That way you can get flanking attacks and other maneuvers/encounters.

I play a rule set at 15mm that allows a defender to hide a certain number of units at the beginning of a game. Their exact locations are marked on a rough hidden map. thus there is no need for blinds on the table. Infantry can be hidden and can move by updating the map. Vehicles can not move because engine noise and vehicle size are too revealing at this scale and engagement distance.

The attacker must scout as he moves to engage the enemy. these are simply a scouting roll, with 1 being a small radius and 6 being a far larger radius of perception. Anything hidden within the radius the attacker rolls is revealed and considered spotted. This gives the attacker a given distance he knows is clear or that he can operate within as he moves toward the enemies position.

Simple and no need for markers, decoy markers and GMs.

Hidden defenders works but it sounds pretty messy to recreate the entire map accurately enough for movement.

I think the advantage of blinds allowing hidden units on both sides is worth it. The Defender needs forward positions if they went reaction time.

Playing a couple of games with an umpire and a map was what got me interested in hidden movement. I tried running a campaign with a map and counters but few people seemed to be interested in the pre-game maneuvering. They just wanted to play the miniatures game and I ended up doing all the work.

The scouting roll for hidden units sounds pretty good. But I'm looking to enable hidden movement as a routine mechanic for all units without an umpire. I think blinds/markers seem to be the way to go that doesn't require any pre-game steps.

I wonder if anyone has already developed an add-on hidden movement module to some popular commercial game?

Pre-drawn maps work well too, if you don't have a GM.

Card chits will as well, with at least 2X the number of dummy units to real ones. 3X – 4X is even better.

Using the latter method, you can even do this solo, which is a bonus.

Yeah, I'm working on a way to play solo. The hard part is determining at what range hidden units should reveal themselves when I don't know what they are.. I've done it with a phone app but it subtracts from the how of the game to have to punch in what targets different blinds have at any given time. Haha.