"Free 4th Cuirassier..." Topic

I think it is a bit harsh that 4th Cuirassier has found himself locked in the chokey!

He wasn't making a 'group attack'. He was using the, possibly apocryphal, story of the Hartlepool Monkey to illustrate the ignorance and gullibility of people who lived before the age of modern media.

The story of the Hartlepool Monkey is quite well known in Britain, and the local football team is still nicknamed 'the monkey hangers' I believe.

This is a pretty obscure observation. What is it that you are referencing? Thanks

4th is in the Dawghouse for a 'group attack'. This supposedly occurred on the Napoleon Fathered a Torbay Baby thread.

It would seem that someone misread his post and believed that he was equating Frenchmen with monkeys!

And we put up a statue to the monkey!!!

link

I thought everyone on TMP had heard of the famous Monkeyhangers!
Apparently not, or it isn't important enough to reverse an Editor decision.

I liked the story and found it interesting. I certainly did not consider it an attack on the French. Although now I understand the Monty Python skit where they call the french "cheese eating surrender monkeys."

Well known story
in the North East of England ( where I am from).

What was said was:

Frenchman, monkey; monkey, Frenchman – if you're from Hartlepool, it's an easy mistake to make.

Hard to argue that the French, people from Hartlepool, or possibly monkeys are not being maligned here.

Ok. I can see that. God forbid that monkeys should be mistaken for Frenchmen! It could ruin their lives!
They could be hanged!!!!

Well the phrasing should be enough to indicate that it is a light-hearted, comic comment.

If anyone is being maligned it is the people of Hartlepool, as it was their ancestors who Are being made to look foolish. As it is, the people of Hartlepool are very proud of the story and have even, as fingers said above, put up a statue…

It really depends on the context, surely 4th didn't just post the snatch reproduced above as it makes no sense by itself? Or was it a response to someone else's post?

Cerdic +1

Respectfully suggest that the DH decision was made without knowing how the people of Hartlepool view themselves in the light of this story – with pride!

And the mistake certainly ruined one monkey's life.

Mildbill

It isn't a MP line, it first appeared in ‘The Simpsons' in 1995, so its an Americanism that's become widely used over here.

I guess you're thinking about the scenes in MP and the Holy Grail in which the Frenchmen are insulting King Arthur?

No good Englishman would ever consider insulting the French, I'm sure. Might hang their monkeys but that's about all.

All this talk about being hung. I think Sheriff Bart said it best….

Railroad worker – "They said you was hung"
Sheriff Bart – "And they wus right"

The Hartlepool nickname is used regularly in the UK without rancour. If your totally unaware of the story, its probably very easy to see malice in the comment.

Might hang their monkeys but that's about all.

Hope PETA does not hear about this !!!!! 🙈🙉🙊

Respectfully suggest that the DH decision was made without knowing how the people of Hartlepool view themselves in the light of this story – with pride!

Yes not the first time local/regional/national stories, sayings, etc., are misunderstood. Even if many of us from the USA and UK speak some form of "English" …

George Bernard Shaw once famously observed: "The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language."

So in short … Free the 4th !!!!!!! ✊ ⚖

Legion 4 +1

PETA in the news today campaigning for an end to the use of animals names in offensive terms, like ‘'dirty rat' or ‘fat pig' as it's disrespectful to both the human ‘victim' and the animal.

As one of our commentators said, when has a sloth ever suffered from low self-esteem as a result of such useage.

Right now, I think we have rather more pressing concerns to focus on.

I know someone who has already drawn attention to a not-uncommon expression which is not unrelated to this issue, that is, the complaint that when something is difficult, awkward to manage, it is "a real pig" of a problem. She wrote:

"As someone who has for some time self-identified as a Pig, I take exception to the expression "a real pig", in that it draws an unwelcome distinction between those who were born pigs, Stye Pigs, and those Trough Pigs regarded by reactionaries as mere Squealers-Come-Lately. I am calling out this inappropriate form of words, and calling on all Right-Thinking Followers of Linguistic Fashion to comply with my Diktat".

One reader shrugged, saying "Meh". Others just grunted.

Well, the real question remains… was the monkey really hung?

You can put lipstick on a pig … but it's still a pig … 🐷

My correspondent now informs me that both PETA and the RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds), following the release of the statement referred to by Basha Felika, are currently being pressured to make exceptions in the case of affirmatory expressions such as "Wise Old Owl", though it is understood a splinter-group, the Association of Rigidly Righteous Strigidae Enumerators, insist that this term, being at the same time geronto-referent and geronto-specific, is problematic in that it is both inclusive and restrictive, resulting in an inappropriate stereotype of younger Owls being perpetuated.

Other interested parties are quietly observing.

\\\….\\\
.OvO.
.::::::::\\\\
::::::::::\\\\
m==m=====
…\\\\\\

Who knew ?!?!?

Third Base.

""*[//]) { > ::::

Robert, I see you're in Scotland.

Lockdown getting to you, as well, is it?

Stay strong, you're not alone, even if it feels like that a lot right now ! 🙂

Just jesting, playing solo mind-games which don't require Dice, and sharing the odd AAR. If the light were better and the weather warmer, I'd sit down to some painting, and have done a bit of carving/converting. Thanks for concern (!), but I'm foolish enough to think that I'm wise enough to play the Fool, occasionally. Dulce est desipere in loco.

Good Luck.

The way things are going in the US. Luck might be all we have …

Mind games….Gee I always lose those too!

To whom?

(Just noticed that I posted too spontaneously there; the intended joke only works if someone had written/said that he always lost "Solo Mind-Games", as in the earlier posting).
Maybe B F was right.

Who ya got?

Hey, Tango just got dawghoused for making a simple factual statement.

FREE TANGO!!!!!!

Cerdic said:

Well the phrasing should be enough to indicate that it is a light-hearted, comic comment.

Light hearted eh?

If we started substituting other ethnic groups, I wonder how light hearted it would remain.

Your attitude suggests that his comment was alright because, cmon, its ONLY the French actually makes the impact of 4th Cuirassier's comment worse and supports the theory that the Napoleonic board has a group of hooligan-esque, nationalistic baddies who both think they're cute and, no matter how repulsive the utterance, stick up for each other because they haven't the backbone to defend their own behavior.

No, the French bit is irrelevant.

The original thread was about the possibility of Napoleon landing on the South coast of England in 1815, before being taken to St Helena.

There was a discussion about contemporary claims that he may have fathered a child during such a visit.

It was postulated that a more likely explanation for such stories was that an imposter used the opportunity to 'woo' credible maidens.

To illustrate the potential gullibility of said maidens the story of the Hartlepool monkey was brought up. The point being that if the townsfolk of Hartlepool could believe that a monkey was a Frenchman (or any foreigner really, it just happened to be a French ship that was sunk), then it was possible to fool a girl in Devon that you were Napoleon.

Just because 4th Cuirassier phrased it in a sarcastic way is it really so hard to understand!

The whole thing was about the potential stupidity of ill-educated provincial English bumpkins at the beginning of the 19th Century.

No, the French bit is irrelevant.

4th Cuirassier used that monkey story as an excuse to make an ethnic slur. You cant see that, other people can. That's exactly why I suggested you try that phrase of his substituting different ethnic groups but I sense you know better.

However it does seem like there are some on here that think it's OK to make anti French slurs. Just try it with me.

Also interesting is why you felt the need to defend him? In any case, you've made him look both weak and worse.

Bravo.

OK, let's try then…

Englishman, monkey; monkey, Englishman – if you're from Marseilles it's an easy mistake to make.

So who is being 'slurred'? The English or the citizens of Marseilles? me, I feel I should now be apologising to the people of Marseilles.

Sorry Minipigs, you've got me beat. I can only understand the words that are written. I don't have your ability to extrapolate hidden meaning!

(You don't work as a code breaker in real life do you, by any chance?)

Sarcastic humor is lost on many

Sarcastic humor is lost on many

And racism is lost on the lost.

And further, some racists think racism a one way street.

TMP link

4th Cuirassier said:
@ 42flankerIf I were a woke snowflake I would seize on the unconscious racism there, because almost all the uses of "British" are in a discreditable context: break through the British center (sic), British reinforcements continued to arrive, bled the British for every step they advanced, British on the verge of breaking, weakened British, pierced the British gun line, British beginning to waver, Ney attacked the weakened British lines and captured the farmhouse, and "20,000" British against the plucky Guard.But yes, it's very noticeable. He's obviously on a mission to overstate the British contribution and steal history, so he must be British.

Sarcastic humor is lost on many

Very true … I know my version of "a sense of humor" does not always come across as intended online…

And racism is lost on the lost.

And further, some racists think racism a one way street.

It seems today in the media, etc., racism, sexism and many other "isms" and "phobias" … Seems like a Catch-22 or a catch-all for a lot of things, that may or not be accurate. I get confused … I'm old …

+1 Legion 4

At least, I think so…what was the question again? Yes, a small whisky would y nice…

😵🥴

Or even a large one!!!

"Neat …"

Glenmorangie for choice, and always neat

@Legion 4
You can put lipstick on a pig … but it's still a pig …

Oh, you know her too?

Legion 4 said: It seems today in the media, etc., racism, sexism and many other "isms" and "phobias" … Seems like a Catch-22 or a catch-all for a lot of things, that may or not be accurate. I get confused … I'm old …

Not positive what point you are trying to make here but this wasnt a one off mistake. 4th Cuirassier has made multiple negative racial, national and ethnic comments and they're not about people from the UK.

Lets stop using the term Catch-22 since many apparently do not know what it means.
"A dilemma or difficult situation from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions."
i.e. In order to be discharged from the army on a section-8 discharge (insanity) all you have to do is request it from your commanding officer. However, if you request to be released on a section-8 discharge it proves that you are NOT insane and there ineligible for a section-8 discharge.

There, I hope that clears it up for all of us.

Not positive what point you are trying to make here

I think von Schwartz's post should have cleared that up for you.

And von Schwartz as far as knowing the pig … that is classified as always …

4th Cuirassier has made multiple negative racial, national and ethnic comments and they're not about people from the UK.

Didn't notice … I guess I wasn't paying attention again.

Not positive what point you are trying to make here

I guess the point I was trying to make is no matter what you say, someone is going to be offended … or not … 🤔😕

Double post … damn !