"Tableaux, par par corps et par batailles de A. Martinen" Topic

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this two-part study by A. Martinen. I had to shorten the title a lot to make it fit! I couldn't have done even half of the research I have done without the guidance from this monumental study. I know it isn't perfect with missing names of officers, misspellings, and officers sometimes grouped into larger battles even if wounded days before, but I can not think of any other book that has this type of depth of knowledge on the entire French army including French Allies.

For those who may not know about this book, I will add a few links.

Part 1 link
Part 2 link

Part 3 tablasmartinien.es which has a large amount of additions and corrections.

Mike,

One of my first purchases of a reprint in Paris 1984 and brought back two copies from France.

Martinen is the definitive work and has been for 200+ years.
It would have been a monumental task to take on and despite detractors finding fault, and immissions, it is an unassailable top class publication.

It tells more than you think it does sometimes and is a permanent feature in my 'ready' Napoleonic library, right next to Malibran volumes on uniforms,

Congrats and regards, davew
++ ‌‌ ++

Is it anything other than just a list of officer casualties?

Extra Crispy,

Overall, yes it is a list of officer casualties. For me, it is a research tool to search on the Base Leonore database.

Dave,

Those were my thoughts. Just had heard someone say he was unreliable, which I disagreed with. I would love to get my hands on the book one day. I really find it hard to comprehend how much time and work it took to go through all the files of each regiment to find the names.

Michael

Michael,

Yes, I have always found it very useful. The deliberate falsification of (some) French casualty reports has misled some writers for 200 years; Martinien's lists are a really good antidote to this.

I added the officer's losses into an online database for research; this research may be done via the campaign ("Feldzug xx") or via the location – just go to link and check it.

Further units will be added – and particularly the frontend re-programmed (due to different character-sets).

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

NapStein,

Well done sir! Great resource.

>>a permanent feature in my 'ready' Napoleonic library, right next to Malibran volumes on uniforms,

One should add of course up there with other primary source material- 'Dictionnaire biographique des généraux et amiraux français de la Révolution et de l'Empire : 1792-1814':

link

Two volumes reprinted @193? were a special find.

>>NapStein,
>>Well done sir! Great resource.

Seconded

And now if you just slipped in a column on 'confirmed' loss of Eagles per battle/ combat, would be very nice. ;-)
regards dave

This list was posted somewhere years ago by John Cook:

3/2e de Ligne. Taken by Hofer's Tyroleans at Sterzing in 1809.
1/4e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian Horse Guards at Austerlitz 1805.
3/4e de Ligne. Taken by Austrian IR Guylai at Wagram 1809.
1/5e de Ligne. Taken by Austrian IR Schröder at Caldiero 1805.
1/8e de Ligne. Taken by British 87th Foot at Barrosa 1811.
9e de Ligne. Destroyed in Russia to avoid capture 1812.
1/15e de Ligne. Taken by Russian IR Schlusselbourg at Friedland 1807.
2/18e de Ligne. Taken by Russian Dragoon Regt St Petersburg at Eylau 1807.
18e de Ligne. Taken by Russian Guard Uhlan Regt at Krasnoie 1812
21e de Ligne. Taken by the Russians at Kulm 1813.
22e de Ligne. Taken by British 30th Foot at Salamanca 1812.
2/24e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian Cuirassiers of the Military Order at
Eylau 1807.
2/26e de Ligne. Lost to the British at the capitulation of Martinique 1809.
33e de Ligne. Taken by the Austrian IR Froom at Kulm 1813.
?/35e de Ligne. Taken by the Austrians at Pordenone 1809.
35e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian IR Poltava at Krasnoie 1812.
39e de Ligne. Thrown into the River Ceira to avoid capture 1811. Recovered
by the British.
?/40e de Ligne. Taken by the Russians at Hollabrun 1805.
42e de Ligne. Lost to the Spanish at the capitulation of Lerida 1814.
1/44e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian Dragoon Regt St Petersburg at Eylau
1807.
44e de Ligne. Taken by the Russians at the Berezina 1812.
45e de Ligne. Taken by the British 2nd Dragoons (Scots Greys) at Waterloo
1815.
1/46e de Ligne. Lost at Aspern-Essling when the bn was destroyed. Fate
unknown.
3/47e de Ligne. Burried at Senafelle in Spain to avoid capture 1809.
?/51e de Ligne. Taken by the Prussian Hussar Regt Towarzysze at Eylau 1807.
?/51e de Ligne. Left in the depot at Madrid and lost to the British 1812.
1/52e de Ligne. Lost to the Spanish at the capitulation of Pampluna 1813.
53e de Ligne. Destroyed in Russia to avoid capture 1812.
?/55e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian IR Pernau at Eylau 1807.
?/55e de Ligne. Taken by the Prussian Hussar Regt Prittwitz Eylau 1807.
62e de Ligne. Taken by the British 44th Foot at Salamanca 1812.
?/66e de Ligne. Lost to the British at the capitulation of Guadeloupe 1810.
?bn 69e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian IR Pernau at Friedland 1807.
1/ 82e de Ligne. Lost to the British at the capitulation of Martinique 1809.
2/82e de Ligne. Lost to the British at the capitulation of Martinique 1809.
3/82e de Ligne. Lost to the British at the capitulation of Martinique 1809.
84e de Ligne. Destroyed in Russia to avoid capture 1812.
92e de Ligne. Destroyed in Russia to avoid capture 1812.
2/93e de Ligne. Lost with the Achille at Trafalgar 1805.
101e de Ligne. Lost at Salamanca 1812. Fate unknown.
105e de Ligne. Taken by the British 1st Royal Dragoons at Waterloo 1815.
?/106e de Ligne. Taken by the Austrian IR Argentau at Wagram 1809.
106e de Ligne. Ordered to be destroyed in Russia to avoid capture 1812 but
taken by the Russians before it could be carried out.
117e de Ligne. Lost to the Spanish at the capitulation of Barcelona 1814.
123e de Ligne. Taken by the Prussians at Wittemberg 1814.
126e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian 23rd Jäger at Borisov 1812.
127e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian Don Cossacks at Krasnoie 1812.
133e de Ligne. Lost to the Prussians at the capitulation of Modlin 1814.
134e de Ligne. Taken by the Russians at Plagwitz 1813.
140e de Ligne. Thrown into the Elster to avoid capture at Leipzig 1813.
Retrieved by the Russians.
145e de Ligne. Taken by the Russians at Leipzig 1813.
146e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian 28th Jäger at Plagwitz 1813.
148e de Ligne. Taken by the Russian 28th Jäger at Plagwitz 1813.
150e de Ligne. Taken by the Prussian 2nd Reserve IR at Neuss 1813.
151e de Ligne. Lost to the Prussians at the capitulation of Glogau 1814.
?/4e Léger. Taken to the Russians at Krems 1805
4e Léger. Lost to the Russians from the regimental depot at Pithiviers 1814.
?/ 9e Légere. Taken by the Russian 5th Jäger at Mohrungen 1807 (some sources
suggest that this was an old Republican flag still in use)
1/10e Légere. Taken by the Russians at Eylau 1807.
1/24e Légere. Taken by the Austrian IR Argentau at Wagram 1809.
1er Cuirassiers. Taken by the Russian Don Cossacks at Taroutino 1812.
4e Cuirassiers. Taken by the Russians at Malodetchko 1812.
9e Cuirassiers. Taken by the Russian Hussar Regt Marioupol at Vilna 1812.
14e Cuirassiers. Taken by the Russian Dragoon Regt St Petersburg at the
Berezina 1812.
?/4e Dragons. Taken by the Russian IR Moscow at Krems 1805.
2/11e Dragons. Taken by the Russian Dragoon Regt St Petersburg at Latein
1805.
13e Dragons. Left in the Retiro in Madrid and lost to the British 1812.
2/15e Dragons. Taken by the Austrian Dragoon Regt Latour at Albeck 1805.
?/17e Dragons. Taken by the Austrians at Albeck 1805.
?/17e Dragons. Taken by the Russians at Mansfeld 1807.
1/18e Dragons. Lost during the retreat from Oporto 1809.
2/18e Dragons. Lost during the retreat from Oporto 1809.
3/18e Dragons. Lost during the retreat from Oporto 1809.
28e Dragons. Taken by Russian Cossacks in 1812.
?/1er Carabiniers. Taken by the Russians at Friedland 1807.
1er Carabiniers. Destroyed to avoid capture in Russia 1812.
3e Chevau Légers. Taken by the Russian Hussar Regt Pavlograd at the Berezina
1812 (eagle ex 8e Dragons).
4e Chasseurs. Taken by Russian IR Poltava at Krasnoie 1812.
8e Chasseurs. Taken by Prussian cavalry at Boragk 1813.
2e Hussards. Taken by the Russian Guard Cossacks at Friedland 1807.
11e Hussards. Taken by the Russians at the Berezina 1812.
1er Artillerie de la Marine. Taken by the Prussians at Mockern 1813

The information is contained in Les Aigles Imperiales by Jean Regnault on
pages 281-284 and the total losses of eagles is listed by year. You can also
use Drapeaux & Etenards by Pierre Charrie on pages 204-227 and are listed by
unit. Both tables are very helpful though you have to go through them and
pick them out by who captured what. Both volumes are very useful.

Eagles Lost by the Grande Armee 1804-1815

From Les Aigles Imperiales 1804-1815 by Jean Regnault, 281-284:

1805 Campaign
Haslach: 15th Dragoons, 17th Dragoons.
Caldiero: 5th Ligne.
Krems: Unidentified infantry eagle.
Lateln: 11th Dragoons.
Auterlitz: 4th Ligne.
Total: 6

1807 Campaign
Eylau: 18th Ligne, 44th Ligne, 51st Ligne, 10th Ligne.
Bichersforf: Unidentified Dragoon Eagle.
Heilsberg: 55th Ligne.
Friedland: 15th Ligne, Unidentified Eagle.
Total: 7

1809 Campaign
Innsbruck: 2d Ligne.
Pordenone: 35th Ligne.
Wagram: 106th Ligne, 4th Ligne, 24th Legere.
Total: 5

1812 Campaign
Taroutino: 1st Cuirassiers.
Viasma: 28th Dragoons.
Krasnoe: 35th Ligne, 18th Ligne, 4th Chasseurs a Cheval.
Berezina: 44th Ligne, 126th Ligne, 14th Cuirassiers, 3d Chevau-Legers.
Vilna: 4th Cuirassiers, 9th Cuirassiers.
Plus one unidentified eagle.
Total: 12

1813 Campaign
Kastzbach: 134th Ligne, 146th Ligne, 148th Ligne.
Kulm: 21st Ligne, 33d Ligne
Leipzig: 1st Artillerie de la Marine, 145th Ligne, 14th Ligne
Neuss: 150th Ligne.
Total: 9

1814 Campaign
Wittenberg: 123d Ligne.
Pithiviers: 4th Ligne
Glogau: 151st Ligne
Total: 3

1815 Campaign
Waterloo: 45th Ligne, 105th Ligne
Total: 2

Colonial Campaigns
Martinique: 82d Ligne x 3, 26th Ligne.
Guadeloupe: 66th Ligne.
Total: 5

Campaigns in Spain and Portugal
Vigo: Eagle of the Atlas
Baylen: 1st Regiment Garde de Paris, 2d Regiment Garde de Paris.
Barrosa: 8th Ligne
Foz de Arunce: 39th Ligne
Arapiles: 22d Ligne, 62d Ligne.
Madrid: 13th Dragoons, 51st Ligne
Maya: 28th Ligne
Pampelune: 52d Ligne.
Lerida: 42d Ligne
Total: 11

Grand Total: 60

Losses at Eylau for which there is provenance, I know about, are as follows.
1. The eagle and drapeau of the 2/18e de Ligne was taken by Dragoons
Podvoronti and Deriaguine of the Russian St Petersburg Dragoon Regiment on 7
February 1807. Lt Lacombe confirms 2/18e in Andolenko. The regiment was
originally presented with 3 eagles in 1804 and still had two of them in
1812,
so only 2/18e seems to have lost one at Eylau. The only surviving eagle of
18e
is that taken at Krasnoi on 18 November 1812 and is (1982) in the Hermitage
Museum, Saint Petersburg.
2. The drapeau of the 2/4e Ligne was taken by Captain Basile Demtchinski of
the Russian Polotzk Infantry Regiment on 7th February 1807. The loss is
confirmed by letters of Capitaine Loy and Général Boyeldieu in Andolenko who
say that the eagle was hit by a cannon shot and all that could be found in
the
snow was a small piece of the staff and a wing of the eagle. Charrié also
reports that the eagle was smashed. 4e was an unlucky regiment; 1/4e lost
its
eagle at Austerlitz and 3/4e lost theirs at Wagram. The only surviving eagle
of 4e is that of 1/4e taken at Austerlitz currently (1982) in the Hermitage
Museum, Saint Petersburg.
3. The drapeau of 1/14e Ligne was taken by Under-officer Basile Outechine of
the Russian Valdimir Infantry Regiment on 8 February 1807. This is confirmed
by a letter of Sergant-major Lecointe porte-drapeau of 14e Line in
Andolenko.
The eagle was not taken having been smashed to pieces by shot earlier, which
also broke the staff. No eagles of 14e Line survive.
4. The eagle and drapeau of 2/24e Ligne was taken by Captain Serguienko and
Cuirassier Illine of the Military Order Cuirassier Regiment on 8 February
1807. The loss is confirmed by French sources in Andolenko. Capitaine de
Castelverd states that the regiment "was completely overcome" and the
regimental history says that only 7 officers and 200 men remained that
evening
and that the remainder "lay hidden in the snow grouped around the drapeau".
Further confirmation is also evident from the Prussian siezure of the
redundant 1804 pattern drapeaux belonging to the regiment at
Saint-Thomas-d'Anquin in 1813; that of 2/24e was missing from the set. No
eagles of 24th Line survive.
5. The eagle and drapeau of 1/44e Ligne was lost and taken by Dragoon
Sirnikov
of the Russian Saint Petersburg Dragoons on 8 February 1807. The loss is
confirmed by Major Mailly commanding 44e in Andolenko, but he is careful not
to say what happened to it and implies that it disappeared. The only
surviving
eagle of 44e is that taken at the Beresina on 28 November 1812 and is (1982)
in the Hermitage Museum, Saint Petersburg.
6. An eagle of the 51e Ligne was lost, presumably that claimed by the
Prussian
Towarczys (a lancer regiment not hussars as given by Charrié). The only
surviving eagle of 51e is that take from Madrid by the British on 12 August
1812, now in the Royal Hospital, Chelsea.
7. An eagle and drapeau of 55th Line was lost at Heilsberg on 29 May 1807,
NOT
at Eylau as given by Charrié. This is claimed Prussian Prittwitz Hussars and
by the Russian Pernau Infantry Regiment. The Russian citation in Andolenko
for
its capture is to Sergeant Antonev of the Pernau Infantry Regiment. The only
surviving eagle of 55e Ligne was formerly in the Garrison church at Potsdam
and is currently in the Musée de l'Armée, so it seems that the Prussians
probably 'bagged' it in the end.
8. An eagle of 1/10th Légère may have been taken on 8 February 1807 but it
is
not claimed by the Russians. Charrié states that it was lost to the Russians
but no regiment is identified, furthermore, Andolenko provides no Russian
citation to a soldier for its capture, or other Russian source which claims
it. The Journal of 3rd Corps says that 1/10th was attacked and disordered by
Russian cavalry and infantry and Morand's report says that it was unable to
form square and over-run by Russian dragoons, so the loss of an eagle is
perfectly possible but not confirmed. Andolenko is suspicious of this one
but
points out that an eagle bearing the number 10 was in the Garrison Church at
Potsdam. Charrié identifies two badly damaged 1804 Pattern eagles recovered
from Berlin which are now in the Musée de l'Armée, but the regiments to
which
they belonged are not known. There, therefore, is no surving eagle which can
be positively attributed to 10e Légère.
9. I see no claims or admissions of the loss of an eagle of 105e de Ligne in
Andelenko or Charrié.
To summarise losses at Eylau, as far as I can see, the Russians claim eagles
from 2/18e, 2/24e and 1/44e and drapeau from 2/4e and 1/14e. The Prussians
claim an eagle, probably from 51e Ligne. 55e and 105e Ligne did not appear
to
loose eagles at Eylau.
John Cook

As I'd had to change to a more actual server architecture I re-programmed the interface and the results table … the new link to Martinien Online is link – I want to add the search via unit or town/place, too.

And of course the missing units will be added sometime (if I've more time :-))

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

@Oliver Schmidt
Thank you O. I wasn't aware of that information.
Will have to spreadhseet that and reference 'by time/ campaign' but valued nonetheless.

I'll add this invaluable 'source' to the "Redux" thread as it's a frequent topic.

Thanks to both, sterling service to the hobby gents !
And I just looked a bit deeper into the Errata-Additions site, a lot of work that and I'll have to keep a translation handy to use it. Not that much of my research goes that far, but obviously Mike does.

regards davew

At least I added three kinds of search:
- officers losses per campaign ("Feldzug")
- officers losses per place/town ("Ort")
- officers losses per unit ("Einheit")

You find all three of them at link and switch between them via the links above the headline.

I think to add an English interface after having included the rest of the Martinien content into the database.

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

Superb Sir, simply superb!

{If you would like a proof-reader for translation, please contact me as I'm keen to assist. My German is schoolboy-non existant!}
regards
davew

Great job and the easiest way to find out officer losses! The database is extremely easy to look through and should help beginners find more information.

Do you mind if I make a correction to Martinen's work on the 17e Ligne?

According to Martinen, two 17e Ligne officers were wounded at Thann on 19 April 1809. However, Belon was wounded on the 17th according to his service record and Prin was an NCO from the 72e Ligne who was officially promoted to the 17e Legere on Mars 20 1809 or 11 Avril 1809 depending on if you look at his service record or controle de troupes. Did he actually reach the 17e Legere who was in Spain or did he join the 4th Battalion in Massena's Corps? He might even just stayed as an Officier de la suite in the 72e Ligne. His service record does show he was wounded at the battle though.

Thank you Markus for your hard work! I have always enjoyed your site.