| Tango01 | 30 Dec 2020 9:43 p.m. PST |
"Nearly half a century ago, Military Sealift Command (MSC) began a modest set of experiments that would fundamentally alter the Navy's auxiliary fleet, converting the oiler USS Taluga (AO-62) to operation by government civilian mariners (CivMars). These pioneers were known as the Taluga Tigers, and the extraordinary success of Operation Charger Log II transformed the combat logistics force from exclusively military in 1972 to exclusively civilian by 2003. The ability to operate ships with less expensive and more efficient civilian crews has been copied to other platforms, including all auxiliaries, command ships, and—most recently—expeditionary mobile bases. Some civilian-manned vessels retain their commissioned status, operating under a hybrid crewing model with active-duty commanding officers. Now, with personnel costs and ship readiness more critical than ever, is time to explore the final frontier of hybrid crewing: surface combatants…"
Main page link
Amicalement
Armand
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| Thresher01 | 30 Dec 2020 9:59 p.m. PST |
Hmmmm, so, half-man, half-?, or half-woman, half-?? Perhaps they should talk to the Chinese, who I've read are doing research in this area. |
 Legion 4  | 31 Dec 2020 6:05 a.m. PST |
The ability to operate ships with less expensive and more efficient civilian crews Never thought I'd hear this … But in a combat situation this may become "dicey". I guess they'd lose their status as non-combatants ? |
| Major Mike | 31 Dec 2020 8:32 a.m. PST |
No, they will just screw them like they did the Merchant Marine after WW2. The jist I get for this is that the Navy can't be bothered with running ships. But, given some of the issues of the past few years, maybe they need to clean house in the ranks and pull new recruits from the Merchant Marine via press gangs. |
| Oberlindes Sol LIC | 31 Dec 2020 3:02 p.m. PST |
less expensive and more efficient civilian crews What? Compare the pay figures for US naval and merchant seagoing personnel from this source: link link Or have USN benefits exceeded the salary difference? The only way civilian crews cost less than Navy crews is that civilian ships have fewer crew members per displacement ton. The main reasons for more crew on Navy ships are (1) crew for weapon systems and (2) redundant crew to allow the ship to continue functioning while taking crew casualties. So what's the plan for those items? Or maybe they're hoping that efficient dancing robots can take over a lot of crew functions. Robots will surely cost less in maintenance, repairs, and upgrades over a long career than a human will cost in salary, insurance, pension, and disability. Or are they going to take the path of registering ships in Liberia or Liechtenstein and giving them undertrained and underpaid crews from the Philippines? |
| Legion 4 | 31 Dec 2020 5:30 p.m. PST |
Still this whole civilians on USN vessels instead of Sailors kind of puzzles me? Sailors should be on USN vessels. What next … civilian tanks crews ?!?!? |
| Augustus | 31 Dec 2020 7:16 p.m. PST |
Hold my beer while I get into this Super Hornet…. |
| gamershs | 31 Dec 2020 8:43 p.m. PST |
Fredrick the Great tried that with his battery guns. As soon as the battle started the civilians were gone. The guns setup and they stayed where they setup. Problem number 2 is that there are very few American flagged ships. If it is American flagged it is American crewed who are covered by American unions. Net result is most ships are foreign flagged so few American crewman. |
| Legion 4 | 01 Jan 2021 12:24 a.m. PST |
Robots will surely cost less Well as soon as that tech is at that point I'm all for it. But you'll probably still need some human USN crew for, command, maintenance, etc. |
| arealdeadone | 01 Jan 2021 3:23 p.m. PST |
Oberlindes, maybe they intend to crew the ships with cheaper foreign laboir such as Chinese? :D The author also seems clueless about international legal norms regarding combatants. Civilians in combat roles is a big no-no. They literally have no real protections and if captured would be considered mercenaries, pirates or terrorists. |
| Legion 4 | 01 Jan 2021 3:26 p.m. PST |
The way things are going … I would not be surprised … |
| Oberlindes Sol LIC | 02 Jan 2021 7:56 p.m. PST |
@arealdeadone: Good point. Civilians in combat roles can just be shot as spies. Or disappeared. |
| Legion 4 | 03 Jan 2021 9:43 a.m. PST |
Yes, you have to make an amendment or something to the GCs. What is the legal military or not status of this new version of "non-combatant" ? |
| Murvihill | 05 Jan 2021 7:48 a.m. PST |
If you put a civilian on a ship it counts against your budget but not your manpower allotment. By moving ships not directly in the line of fire to civilians the Navy can concentrate its sailors in the billets where fighting actually takes place and they get a bigger bang for the buck. |
| Legion 4 | 05 Jan 2021 1:56 p.m. PST |
That does sound reasonable … But again it leaves the civilians on USN vessels a new class of non-combatant, based on the GCs, I'd think. |
is painting some ground targets as he needs them.
