"What if Napoleon Hadn’t Lost Europe and Other Questions" Topic
12 Posts
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Tango01 | 22 Dec 2020 4:10 p.m. PST |
… of Alternate History "Across pop culture, history is being unraveled and remade. There's the post-World-War-II dystopia that emerges from a triumphant Nazi Germany in the TV show "The Man in the High Castle" (based on a Philip K. Dick book of the same name). There's the furor that erupted in 2017 over a proposed HBO series called "Confederate,"currently in limbo, which imagined an America in which the Confederacy successfully seceded from the Union, and the NBC show "Timeless" spends most episodes exploring "what if" scenarios in American history like "What if women never achieved the right to vote?". Meanwhile, fiction writers have penned novels on variations of history stretching from a world in which the black plague killed 99 percent of Europe's population, making way for a Muslim empire (The Years of Rice and Salt, by Kim Stanley Robinson) to what would've happened if Franklin Delano Roosevelt hadn't been elected to a third term at the dawn of World War II (Philip Roth's The Plot Against America)…" Main page link Amicalement Armand |
Rudysnelson | 22 Dec 2020 5:19 p.m. PST |
So how does that happen? I can see a delay but not a long term secure outcome. Traditionally at that time it was surrender back to your home region and wait for the next spark of conflict. Russia surrenders in 1812. Napoleon races back to Spain with a new army. Germans Prussia, Austria and Nationalistic German minor states get restless. Russia growls again in 1814. Germans follow. Napoleon in Spain or Britain. |
Frederick | 22 Dec 2020 6:51 p.m. PST |
Good question – there is a school of thought that counter fractal history would probably turn out about the same. I do think there are a few seminal events that might change the course of history – say, Franz Ferdinand's driver knowing which street to drive down – but for Napoleon to conquer Europe and keep it he would have had to radically change his "every problem is a cannonball" approach |
Skarper | 22 Dec 2020 11:16 p.m. PST |
The big problem for the French Empire under Napoleon was economic. The Empire ran on war and looting the other empires. If England could have somehow been invaded and defeated, and their Empire taken over – maybe. But with Britain funding and fomenting revolt against French hegemony it was perpetual war and sooner or later the money would run out. I thought that was the root of the abortive invasion of Russia. They needed more money to keep the Empire running?
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marmont1814 | 23 Dec 2020 10:49 a.m. PST |
1813 at the battle of Bautzen Napoleons scouts capture the Czar of Russia and the King of Prussia, this cows Austria so the war ends he hangs on to his captives and the various generals he captures peace resolves, maybe for a while, Davout is sent with another 250,000 men to Spain and put in charge, Britain cant stand the pressure evacuates, the British government falls and the opposition takes control for peace, Iberia falls to Napoleon and peace reigns, maybe for a time but a few years as prisoners will take the fight out of the two allied kings |
Tango01 | 23 Dec 2020 12:42 p.m. PST |
Thanks!. Amicalement Armand
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Rudysnelson | 23 Dec 2020 3:13 p.m. PST |
Marymount, what about all the Generals and colonels in 1812. The Czar is hung, then these French Generals are hung. French captives in Spain are hung. Where does Davout get his men? German liberation becomes a major discord to France. Austria does nor cower. It becomes the leader of German liberation rather than Prussia. Unified Germany under Austria. French stragglers are fair game to all of the independent Cossacks roaming the area. |
marmont1814 | 23 Dec 2020 6:45 p.m. PST |
Rudy who said execute , I said he would take them captive, in 1813 in the real world not this fantasy football, these people very nearly got captured at Bautzen but there guards heard the french approach and got away by there skin of there teeth, I'm giving a scenario that could have changed the war. Napoleon wasn't into executing heads of states re the Spanish king and his son. Also if the 600,000 french men under arms in Germany after the spring offensive and Bautzen, if these kings where captured then Napoleon could easily flood Spain from this Grand army of Germany – you really need to read before you play. What I was saying capturing the Czar takes Russia out as it is a staunch Autocracy, Prussia cant fight alone and without Russia, Austria would play quiet,there was a strong peace party in Austria. Flooding Spain and driving or just inflicting a defeat could, and probably would, cause the government in Britain to fall and the opposition wanted peace as the subsidies to the European powers to fight and the costs of armaments and uniforms never mind the cost of the British and Portuguese in Spain where causing fiscal worries and higher taxes. Austria only came into the war after the spring armistice, as part of a tri party army, if they had fought with Prussia it wouldn't have gone down well. Why would you think that Napoleon would hang two kings???????? he wanted to be seen as one of the club the legitimate Emperor, the start of a dynasty, and executing them would only put another ruler on the throne!!!! Also it would probably stir up more anti French sentiments, but on what scenario are you saying in Spain the British would execute French prisoners in some sort of pique – it would never happen |
Rudysnelson | 23 Dec 2020 7:25 p.m. PST |
What is fantasy football and what does it have to do with history or alternate history. Just like the South could not have won the ACW, Napoleonic France could not have secured a 20 year peace. |
marmont1814 | 24 Dec 2020 3:38 a.m. PST |
Fantasy football is a game people play where they create teams based on real players from different teams and score points based on there performance in real life, by ex g/f played it for a while, I never did but its popular, its like this is a fantasy history a what if based on circumstances that are not historical events. I think Napoleon could have secured a peace, but the continental powers like to say after napoleons defeat it ushered in years of peace, what peace the Carlist wars, the Italian revolution etc the wars continued but smaller, Britain, Portugal, Germany etc in its colonies. What they meant is after napoleon they where too scared and busy and broke to fight a major world war. If napoleon had got the respite in 1813 and had the army in the field and built up his training and horse flesh he would have had peace. Sadly I think if Great Britain decided to live with Napoleon and not bankroll the European powers he could have attained a cold war type peace, probably would crumble like a lot of thinks did in the 1830s -40s with revolution etc |
USAFpilot | 24 Dec 2020 11:54 a.m. PST |
"What if" …. anything. Napoleon DID conquer Europe. That IS what matters. EVERY empire on Earth is eventually lost. |
Tango01 | 24 Dec 2020 1:02 p.m. PST |
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