"A unorthodox order of battle for the Battle of Boswoth." Topic

Hello everyone,

In his book Amies of the Middle Ages, Volume1- Published by Wargames Research Group Publication (1982), Ian Heath gives the order of battle for Richard III's army:

Vanguard: 1200 longbowmen under Thomas Howard, Duke of Norfok and 200 cavalry (on foot?) Under his son Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey.

Battle: 1000 billmen, 2000 spearmen* (Lancers ???) and more cavalry (how many?) Under Richard III.

Rearguard: 2000 billmen, spearmen* (again?) And others (longbowmen?) And 1500 cavalry under Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland.

Ian Heath has a three page bibliography for this book, but he doesn't say where he got these precise numbers from ?

I find this an unorthodox order of battle compared to previous WOTR armies …

Do you know of an order of battle for Richard III's army at the Battle of Bosworth that seems less bizarre to you?

With fewer spearmen* and more longbowmen?

*Specifically described, in at least one document, as "long" the spear was particularly favored by the Welsh at an even later period than Bosworth…

Indeed the muster list for Denbighshire in 1539 show more spearmen than billmen.

But this was not the Richard III's army at Bosworth …

Paskal

Spearmen is an arbitrary term and can mean mounted troops as in the 200 spearmen at Tewkesbury.

The world has moved on since 1982. Get a copy of Mike Ingram's "Richard III and the Battle of Bosworth" published by Helion if you have a real interest in the battle.

Can't seem to find the right quote at the moment but IIRC these numbers are from a much later source Tudor source. Most of my WOTR books are in storage at the moment but I note that neither Michael Bennet nor Foard & Curry used them at a quick glance which suggests that modern researchers have judged the numbers unreliable.

@MajorB :

Yes Spearmen is an arbitrary term and can mean mounted troops as for the 200 spearmen at Tewkesbury, but I don't think that's the case here …

There I think it's infantry, there I think it's infantry,I even read somewhere that they were even designated as pikemen, which is even more impossible …

I also read that the longbowment had started to decrease in proportion in the English armies from this time …

@Trebian :

Yes the world has moved on since 1982.

But at another time it was Michael Bennett-The Battle of Bosworth (Gloucester 1985) the best book on this battle …

But what I would be interested in, would be to know where does this order of battle come from and compare it with a more recent one that some might publish to us if they have any …

@Daniel S :

Yes I also think they are unreliable, not enough longbowmen and too many spearmen …

If any of you could post another order of battle on RIII's army at Bosworth on this topic that we can compare …

Thank you.

@Everybody:
I have the same book by Heath. I have never seen a historic source which could give rise to these figures and Heath does not quote one.

I did suspect that this OOB was taken from the Shakespeare play Richard III but the version online does not confirm it.

Barry