Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 4:37 a.m. PST |
There are book from Christopher Duffy "Eagles over the Alps : Suvorov in Italy and Switzerland, 1799" and this book have coverart probably from Bill Younghusband. On this picture are probably Suvorov in Austrian uniform and his staff. Anybody knows, where we may be found this picture with better quality than blurring images in bookstores shopping lists? I suppose, that Bill and Chris did proper research and uniformology on this picture is correct. |
von Winterfeldt | 03 Dec 2020 4:59 a.m. PST |
Indeed it is on the cover, but it is modern impression, I am not sure about the Austrian generals uniform coat, a photo of an original looks a bit different, there are good prints of Austrian generals of that time available. I will make a photo of it and send it to you. |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 5:10 a.m. PST |
Thanks! I am mostly interested about decorations on Suvorov field uniform. On parade portrait with Austrian coat he was overhelmed by decorations. |
von Winterfeldt | 03 Dec 2020 5:46 a.m. PST |
well you should have it now, not a lot of decorations here. |
von Winterfeldt | 03 Dec 2020 5:53 a.m. PST |
I checked two catalogues I bought when I was in Switzerland in 1999 – no luck with Suvarov in full regalia in Austrian uniform, only in this Russian one, he is covered in decorations, but seemingly he was riding around only in this woolen shirt. |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 5:55 a.m. PST |
Yes. Thanks! :-) Only two decorations. |
von Winterfeldt | 03 Dec 2020 7:07 a.m. PST |
Yes, but I have my doubts about the artist. |
Cuprum2 | 03 Dec 2020 7:08 a.m. PST |
Lifetime portrait of Generalissimo Alexander Suvorov, by the artist Johann Heinrich Schmidt, 1800 |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 7:25 a.m. PST |
Yes, this is that parade picture with overloaded decorations. |
Frederick | 03 Dec 2020 8:21 a.m. PST |
The overloaded with decorations thing is very Russian
link link |
138SquadronRAF | 03 Dec 2020 8:31 a.m. PST |
From Duffy "Russia's Military Way to the West" page 192. 'Deliberately rejecting pomp and state, he slumped around the army in a ragged soldier's coat, and when he had to go somewhere on horseback he borrowed the first nag that came to hand.' So if you want his as a general, he's not going to be attired in finery. Yes, he could dress in full dress for state occasions, but not on campaign. Old Glory 15s do a Suovorov figure in shirt with the coat strapped behind the saddle in place of the valise or portmanteau. |
Cuprum2 | 03 Dec 2020 10:00 a.m. PST |
Suvorov really rarely used full suit general. Judging by his recollections, he could often be seen in a shirt or even a soldier's uniform. A couple more lifetime images, but for an earlier period:
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Cuprum2 | 03 Dec 2020 10:04 a.m. PST |
I think that a full set of awards was worn only for the creation of a ceremonial portrait or in a solemn occasion. |
von Winterfeldt | 03 Dec 2020 12:21 p.m. PST |
@Cuprum2 Many thanks for those very interesting pictures and comments. @Sho Austrian general staff of 1798 by T. Mollo sent to you directly |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 12:47 p.m. PST |
Thanks, received. :-) Russian decorations was'nt just awards for actions on those times. These were signs of rank and position in power hierarchy, status and seniority symbols. Only men on top of the hierarchy could afford himself to not wear decorations. So Suvorov, as Commander in Chief, have such luxury. In Italy he already was an old man and liked to wear Austrian uniform. With Austrian decorations, as we can see on cover of Duffy's book. |
Valmy92 | 03 Dec 2020 3:09 p.m. PST |
Stepping beyond Suvarov's specifics for a special sculpt, anybody have an idea where to find other suitable generals? Did other Russians use Austrian uniforms too? BTW, project backed. Phil |
Camcleod | 03 Dec 2020 6:23 p.m. PST |
My copy says cover art by Ray Rubin. |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 7:41 p.m. PST |
Thanks Valmy92 :-) As I know, only Suvorov wear Austrian clothes. @Camcleod On picture about cover, VW send to me, there are written, that this is "Original Artwork by Bill Youngblood" on front cover, and that it is original artwork by Bill Younghusband on back cover. |
Sho Boki | 03 Dec 2020 8:01 p.m. PST |
von Winterfeldt: "Yes, but I have my doubts about the artist." You rightfully have. On picture Suvorov looks like tall men, but he was shorter than average Austrian infantryman and these were shortest in Europe. |
Jcfrog | 04 Dec 2020 5:58 a.m. PST |
Ask Suvorov museum in SPB, they have a very knowledgeable researcher guide there, he can answer. Had a 2 h visit with him last year. |
138SquadronRAF | 04 Dec 2020 11:14 a.m. PST |
Here are two modern clips about Souvorov, the first from a documentary, the second from a Russian Bank advertisement: YouTube link YouTube link This is probably the most accurate representation of Souvorov in the field, and a classic: YouTube link This ties back to the earlier quote for Duffy. |
von Winterfeldt | 05 Dec 2020 2:02 p.m. PST |
I bought the Old Glory Russian generals, not bad – but no Suvorov in shirt sleeves. |
138SquadronRAF | 05 Dec 2020 4:00 p.m. PST |
I bought the Old Glory Russian generals, not bad – but no Suvorov in shirt sleeves. Ir was under their Battle Honours range. |
SHaT1984 | 20 Jan 2022 2:44 p.m. PST |
An update:- Another Schmidt portrait 1799:
. The best image I can imagine just months before he died in 1800. regards davew |
SHaT1984 | 21 Jan 2022 12:30 p.m. PST |
I found this additional and pertinent note elsewhere on the site [slightly edited for readability]: Instruction Suvorov's daughter Natasha: "…remember that liberation produces contempt; beware of liberty deeds. get used to to casual courtesy. Run away society wishing to shine with the mind: their morals are mostly parts are depraved … " Ibid., part 2, p. eight. Shortly before Death of Suvorov Saxon Elector sent his courtier to him the painter Schmidt, so that he can draw portrait of the famous commander. From the words spoken by Suvorov to the one who painted him the artist can clearly see the humane, philanthropic character of the commander: "You convey with your brush the features of my face, because they are open, but my inner constitutes a secret. I need to tell you that I shed streams of blood: I shudder from one memories of that. And meanwhile I'm near I love mine. have never I did not make a man unhappy; didn't sign not a single death sentence… I was a small man, was a big one. Did a wave of happiness lift me up or throw me into the abyss, I, in the hope of God, remained hard…" Russian antiquity, 1875, vol. 13, no. 5, p. 150. Certainly learn more here than other places: link regards davew |
Robert le Diable | 21 Jan 2022 5:24 p.m. PST |
Interesting that Suvorov must remain an "iconic" figure (to judge from his being part of those commercials); I remember seeing a Russian film on television, and with subtitles, in which one character says, probably quoting a proverb, "Did Suvorov ever retreat?". And the Battle Honours figure is excellent, by the way. |
von Winterfeldt | 21 Jan 2022 11:50 p.m. PST |
what Battle Honours figure? |