"Hessian Grenadier Battalions" Topic

The treaty between Hesse Cassel and Great British determined the army sent to America would be made up of 4 Grenadier battalions, 15 Infantry battalions, 2 companies of Mayer and 2 artillery pieces and crews per regiment or battalion. Each Grenadier battalion was to have 16 Commissioned Officers, 44 Non Commissioned officers, 1 non combat officer, 20 musicians, and 429 rank and file. Actual field strength would be much lower. After the attack on Red bank the two Grenadier battalions who fought there fielded 192 men total.

The four Grenadier battalions were made up of four companies each, and were named after their commanding officer. With slight modifications this stayed the same throughout the war.

Grenadier Battalion von Linsing

In 1776 the battalion was composed of the Grenadier company from the Leib, Mirbach, 2nd bn. Guard and 3rd bn. Guard regiments. These stated together until February 1783 when a company from the Landgraf replaced the company from the Mirbach. In May 1783 the organization changed to a company from the 1st, 2nd and 3rd bn. Guards and a company from the Erbprinz regiment.

Grenadier Battalion von Block

In 1776 it was commanded by Ltc. Justus Heinrick Block. He was replaced after that year by Ltc. George Emanuel von Lengerke. The battalion was composed if the Grenadier company from the Wutginau, Prinz Carl, Donop and Trumbach regiments. In 1783 the company from Jung von Lossberg replaced the Trumbach company.

Grenadier Battalion von Minnigerode

In 1776 the battalion was commander by Col. Frederick Ludwig von Minnigerode. He was replaced in 1780 by Col. Wilhelm von Lowenstein. The battalion was made up of the Grenadier company from the Erbprinz, Ditfurth, Lossberg and Knyphausen regiments.

Grenadier Battalion von Kohler

In 1776 commanded by Ltc. Johann Christopher Kohler. He was replaced in 1778 by Maj. Wilhelm Graf, who was replaced in 1782 by Maj. Fredrick Platte. The battalion was made up if the company from the Rall , Wissenbach, Stein and Bunau regiments.

link

Alas, WillBGoode was ambushed by Autocorrect.
"Mayer" should of course be Jaeger.

Good summary.

Yes, it is a good summary. I have the von Linsing and von Lengerke Battalions in my AWI British forces.

Jim

Wasn't von Rall a grenadier Regiment?

Oh, I think I see. These are composite battalions, not a specified Regiment. Is that the case?

Yes, that is correct.

Think of them like the British combined Grenadier battalions. They are a collection if companies from a number of different regiments.

Think of Rall (not "von Rall", Rall was not a nobleman) as an ordinary regiment wearing a Grenadier hat.

Thank you for the information!

I believe the Rall (later renamed for obvious reasons), was a new regiment. IIRC, created specifically for service in North America.

No. It's a linear descendant of a converged battalion from a previous war that was converted into a regiment. Who knows why? But, like musketeer and fusilier regiments, it was a normal line regiment that happened to west a big pointy hat. It even had an "elite" company that was separated and brigaded with the Koehler/Platte/Graffe converged Grenadier battalion.
Yeah.
I don't have the particulars in front of me, but there's a unique history for a unique regiment.
The Rall regiment was renamed because Rall was killed at Trenton. The Margrave of Hesse Cassel called an indignant court of inquiry. The Court decided that the stain on Hessian honor due to the debacle of Trenton was the fault of all the officers who were killed. Now THAT is how a proper Court of Inquiry is conducted!

The Hessian nomenclature of regiments is obviously not "logical" in the sense that the British and Prussian system, numbering them in order of seniority, or the French system of naming them after where the location where they allegedly did their recruiting. Of course, that is very simplified and there were notable exceptions. British regiments obviously had names too, and the French regiments also had a strict seniority.

But there is something charmingly nerdish in the names of the Hessian regiments. The exact regiment could have a different name depending on what time in the war it serves. An obvious example is von Trümbach/Bose. And Rall, later d'Angeleli. (sp?)
And it's not as if the French or British regiments didn't have their own nerdish distinctions either.

You could be right, John. I might be confusing Rall Regt with some of the other Hessian units specifically put together for service overseas.

So I looked up Rall, and you were right, it had a long history, but it was not regarded as a very good unit. Atwood said it was full of farm boys, had a lot men on leave from the ranks, and that one of the 17 year old "grenadiers" in the ranks was 5 foot, one inch tall – according to the British inspection report. Rall was generally regarded as a competent officer, but the unit was not really up to speed.

Perhaps. But it fought very well at Long Island, White Plains and Fort Washington.
At Trenton the regiment was worn out but still tried to fight its way out. After it was reorganized it dud well dine south.

link

I had a thought about Rall having no lapels. Neither did the garrison regiments. Was that significant?

Rall was also not the first choice as "brigade" commander at Trenton. The other regiments' field commanders were indisposed or ill.
He arrogantly refused to take any steps to at least fortify the roads coming in, and ran the men ragged. Of course the New Jersey MILITIA had a lot to do with exhausting the garrison also. Alarums and excursions without!
One can't help but think that a better commander would have done a better job. But I'm ok with that. It saved the Revolution.

Yes, it became a good regiment under Rall's direction. Didn't start out that way, but then again, really almost all of the combatants on both sides were green.

Attwood said that the regiment's history came from that of militia, IIRC, and they were still paid out of that pot of money, unlike more other Hessian units.

The Major General who was supposed to command at Trenton was ill. The Hessian officers were usually much older than their British counterparts, from top to bottom.

The command at Trenton was a very poor deployment indeed, and Rall did himself no favors there either. For some reason, I believe Major General Grant was in command of NJ. That would explain a lot. LoL

Grant did tell Rall to prepare better. Rall was contemptuous of the Yankees, and kind of took a "You're not the boss of me!" attitude.
Thus Trenton.

Rall was a true professional. He is only remembered for his involvement at Trenton by most unfortunately. However, I do recall him serving in the WAS as well as spending time with Catherine the Great. And no, not in that sense. Well, at least I don't think so.

Other than some translations done by Bruce Burgoyne, I don't think anything has been written on him. But, why would there be I guess?

I think that John is on the right track bout the Rall regiment and its origins. He got me thinking, and reaching for some books this morning. Here is what I found:

"The landgrenadier Regiment Rall, by contrast, was formed not of hardened deserters but callow farm Mars. Although the soldiers wore Grenadier caps and there were six axemen per company as in the grenadier battalions, Rall's was not formed of elite flank companies. Rather, it had originated in 1703 when the best men of the landmiliz regiments were drawn together and called, rather logically, A land Grenadier battalion. In 1760 when the landmiliz became garrison regiments, the Landgrenadier became in effect one of the field regiments. It still betrayed its origins in the militia: for accounting, its finances were reckoned with those of the garrison regiments: more of its men were furloughed than in the other field regiments: and the Hannoverians reported that its men were the smallest of the first division, …."

Although they also made a very favorable impression.
"they are however in surprising forwardness: which is owing to the activity and cleverness of their Colonel, who is one of the best officers of his rank, in the Landgrave's army."

Atwood, Rodney. The Hessian: Mercenaries from Hessen-Kassel in the American Revolution.

So good for you John and thank you for posting. You add a lot here. Thank you.
Cambridge University press, 1980.

Thank you for sharing that, Will.

You add a lot as well.

Eric

"Six axemen per company"?
This gives von Minigerode some hope cutting through the abatis and palisades at Fort Mercer.

Thank you, Will and Roger for your diligent research and contributions.
Well, OK. You too Eric.

I just want to tell you both, good luck. We're all counting on you.

Oh! BTW please note that I posted this from my blog on the 6 November. Then, in his usually smash and grab of what is out there on the internet to fill the pages here Tango grabs the very same post and posts it here, again as something new on 27 November. And Kevin posts " Armand, Thanks very much for the information, once again. K". Yes Kevin lets thank Tango for writing this and sharing it.

Please note my post on the Battle of Chippewa has been put up by Tango four different times. And that is commented on by long time contributors on the War of 1812 pages. I guess they pay attention.

So yes, I am frustrated by this. And yes, others share my frustration with the anonymous postings by Tango. I have asked, again and again if Tango could please give a credit to where he takes the stuff he posts from here. Would that be so difficult?

"they are however in surprising forwardness: which is owing to the activity and cleverness of their Colonel, who is one of the best officers of his rank, in the Landgrave's army.""

Could I ask what might have been meant by the term translated as 'forwardness' quoted by Atwood?

Indeed not.
It would mean typing one line. "From the My Brave Fusiliers! blog."
Even nicer to add "Nice blog. Check it out! He does great research and presentation!"
But for some reason, he can't be bothered to be polite about it. Too much work? It's justified because he's been doing it that way for years?
Technically, he is not in violation of TMP policy. Which is a shame. But then again, he can't be bothered to stop himself from linking to notorious Russian copyright violating download sites either. That IS against TMP policy. He did this just a few days ago. Luckily one of our diligent Editors caught it and deleted the entire thread.

"they are however in surprising forwardness: which is owing to the activity and cleverness of their Colonel, who is one of the best officers of his rank, in the Landgrave's army.""

Could I ask what might have been meant by the term translated as 'forwardness' quoted by Atwood?

I interpret that as they were quite cocky, for lack of another word, after being viewed upon as inferior. I'm sure Rall would have been privy to such comments, and perhaps took extra measures to develop some esprit de corps.

Can you cite the page number please?

Page 43, per my 2002 paperback edition; The Hessians, by Rodney Atwood. ISBN 0 521 52637 X

It would appear though, you are already familiar with the page from your 10 November post? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are asking for regarding the page.

So I looked up Rall, and you were right, it had a long history, but it was not regarded as a very good unit. Atwood said it was full of farm boys, had a lot men on leave from the ranks, and that one of the 17 year old "grenadiers" in the ranks was 5 foot, one inch tall – according to the British inspection report. Rall was generally regarded as a competent officer, but the unit was not really up to speed</Q>

I don't memorize page numbers, honestly. LoL I'll look it up as I feel I am missing some context.

Just reading it here, my thoughts went to the unit's level of training. All units had to undergo additional training when shifting from peace time/garrison life to a wartime deployment. This is the type of description that was often used at the time to credit the commanding officer for doing a good job of getting his regiment ready for combat.

I believe it was Attwood that stated there were no negative comments made about Rall prior to the Trenton fiasco.

But, I'll look when I get home later. Thanks for posting the page number. It is a bit off topic though, as this regiment was not viewed as a true grenadier unit per se.

Hey, no problem..
I just happen to remember it was in the beginning of the book. The entire recruitment process described by Atwood was brutal and almost comical to read at times. I really need to go back and reread the first several chapters again.

So I am going to stand by my statement that this is the inspecting British officer's comment – that while he viewed them as inferior to the other Hessian units he had reviewed, he was giving credit to Rall for having them brought up to a higher standard since.

Ah yes. British officers "inspecting" Hessian regiments.
I think Wargamers can give equally valid assessments.

I say, that's a bit low.

It was "the" inspecting officer reviewing the troops they were paying for. He was reviewing them to see if they were fit for service.

Ah yes. British officers "inspecting" Hessian regiments.

As the various German regiments were going to be fighting with the British, why shouldn't a British officer inspect them?

It was a shot at humor.
Not surprised to see your reaction.

Perhaps you should actually realize that you're just not funny. That is undoubtedly a shocker, but there it is…

Those whose opinions I value find me quite humorous.