Help support TMP


"Order of Battle for Chaeronea 338 BC" Topic


4 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Remember that you can Stifle members so that you don't have to read their posts.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Ancients Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Ancients

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Dux Bellorum


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Profile Article

Rubbery Dinos at the Dollar Store

Get these inexpensive dinos while you can.


Featured Book Review


1,137 hits since 23 Oct 2020
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Bellerophon199323 Oct 2020 7:28 a.m. PST

Trying to put together a list for a Chaeronea refight and was wondering what other people had done for their home games.

The sources give a pretty clear picture of the heavy infantry on both sides, and there's of course the Macedonian cav, but there's a few gaps in the sources that make wargaming it a bit improvisational.

1. Psiloi. Giving the Greek alliance Archers/Javelinmen/Slingers seems appropriate for a Greek force of the period, but I'm wondering if Macedon should have any. They hadn't yet employed Langarus, but their alliance with the Agrianes existed, and there's some mention of Macedonian Archers/Slingers, but much later under Alexander.

2. Greek Cavalry. I'm wondering if a single unit of Cav for the Athenian Hippeis or whatever the Thebans brought is appropriate. The sources make no mention of any cavalry duel, so they probably were not any sort of match for the Companions/Thessalians, but is it likely they were there?

3. Macedonian organization. Pezhetairoi in the center, and supposedly the Hypaspists on the wing, who I'm going to arm as Hoplites. Was Philip with the Phalanx, or with Companions? And was Alexander with Thessalians? There's some ambiguity about this.

4. This is just a minor one, but any idea who a potential third divisional commander might be for the Macedonians? For the Greeks I've got Chares, Lysicles, and Theagenes, but I'd like a 3rd for Macedon – I'm thinking Attalus, who was ascendant in the court at the time.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP23 Oct 2020 8:11 a.m. PST

My understanding is that P was with the infantry that fell back, Hypaspists and Phalanx while A was with the Companions and Thessalians. Parmenio is another possibility for 3rd General Officer.

williamb23 Oct 2020 9:05 a.m. PST

Diodorus(XVI.85) gives the Macedonians 30,000 foot and 2000 cavalry including allies. He says there were 24,000 native Macedonian foot in 334B.C. Diodorus(XVI.86) also states that Phillips seasoned generals (possibly including Parmenio) were stationed with Alexander. The composition of the allied contingent is unknown and not all of the Macedonian foot may have been present. Plutarch says that Alexander broke through near the Macedonian grave mound by Cephissus.

This would put Alexander and the Macedonian cavalry on the left flank and Phillip on the right with the Hypaspists. The Athenians faced Phillip and the Boeotians and Sacred Band faced Alexander.

Phil Sabin's book "Lost Battles" covers the differing views on the Greek army. As many as 2000 cavalry, 30,000 hoplites and 5000 light infantry. Possibly 10,000 Athenians, 12,000 Boeotians including the Sacred Band, 2000 each of mercenaries, Corinthians, Megarans, and Achaeans. Others claim only 7000 Boeotians, 10000 Athenians and 15,000 other allies and mercenaries. Like this battle Greek cavalry was present at other battles, but the accounts of those battles usually don't mention them either.

JJartist28 Oct 2020 10:33 a.m. PST

1. Psiloi. Giving the Greek alliance Archers/Javelinmen/Slingers seems appropriate for a Greek force of the period, but I'm wondering if Macedon should have any.

-----> Some say as many as 7000 light troops were on the Macedonian side including Thessalian foot apparently arrived late. Just about everything about this battle is fabricated from minimal sources, so you have to do some guess work.
Some guesses from modern recreations is that the light infantry were split between the hills and the marshes on either flank, with all the cavalry from both sides on the marshy side across the streams.

2. Greek Cavalry.

---> Most guesses claim that the Allies had some cavalry. The two options for both sides is either they were across the stream or held in reserve behind the infantry line that filled the field. Some folks state that Thessalian light cavalry joined the Macedonians late, and filled out their numbers to 2000, from 800 Companions.

3. Was Philip with the Phalanx, or with Companions? And was Alexander with Thessalians? .

----> Everybody's best guess is that Philip was with the hypaspists on the right wing, the center was held by Greek mercenaries and pikemen. The left was commanded by Alexander with supervision- possibly Parmenio.


4. This is just a minor one, but any idea who a potential third divisional commander might be for the Macedonians? For the Greeks I've got Chares, Lysicles, and Theagenes, but I'd like a 3rd for Macedon.

---->The center commander could be Antigonos Monopthalmos, since he was the named commander of the Greek mercenaries when Alexander invaded Persia four years later. Since the center had the mercenaries, that is least my best guess.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.