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"Wearing masks." Topic


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30 Nov 2020 6:43 a.m. PST
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Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 12:43 a.m. PST

In the age of Covid-19, are you wearing a mask while wargaming?

Andoreth06 Oct 2020 12:51 a.m. PST

In this age of Covid 19 I am currently solo wargaming so I am not wearing a mask. When I begin wargaming against opponents again, yes I shall wear a mask.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 12:52 a.m. PST

Well….not whilst solo wargaming.

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 1:49 a.m. PST

Not gaming so moot point to me.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 2:25 a.m. PST

No.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 2:56 a.m. PST

While solo gaming? No. While gaming against a single friend I meet once a week? Also no, though that's hypothetical. The last game was April or May, though we have hopes for next week.

Hold Little Wars, and I will wear a mask.

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 3:12 a.m. PST

I stopped gaming at the local club and have the same 2 friends and my brother coming over to game at my house.

They sanitize their hands when they walk in. We do not wear masks.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 3:17 a.m. PST

While we were still able to play at our club, we did not bother with masks, we maintained a good 2 meter distance between players and washed our hands quite regularly.

Distancing and hand hygiene are the best defences, masks are a mitigating factor if you cannot socially space.

JimDuncanUK06 Oct 2020 3:24 a.m. PST

Am old, male, underlying health problems so probably no gaming chums till masks are a memory.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 4:21 a.m. PST

60 year old man and I game with a small group of friends with no masks. Been doing it for several months and so far nobody gotten sick.

USAFpilot06 Oct 2020 4:46 a.m. PST

No. Masks don't work. The N95 mask only blocks 95% of .3 micron particles. The virus is .125 microns. Cloth masks block even less.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 5:13 a.m. PST

They work to stop spread from the wearer from coughs and from sneezing.

Here's a nice graphic of a cough:

YouTube link

A nice home test is to put up some paper on a wall and sneeze at it with and without a mask you should see a very different droplet pattern.

The idea is not to block the particles but to reduce the distance they are transmitted over and the density of the particle cloud.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 5:15 a.m. PST

At work and while shopping I wear a mask.
They're uncomfortable, they fig my glasses, I can smell my coffee and it's disgusting when I sneeze. But I'm a Tough Guy. I can take it.
And if a mask only blocks 70%, isn't that better than pretending to be a Rebel against The Man and wearing nothing?
Don't most virus particles travel in water droplets, which masks DO trap? Few travel freely.

Having said that, we re-started our regular games because we (I really. Games are in my basement) thought things were calming down. I'm having second thoughts.

Thomas O06 Oct 2020 5:33 a.m. PST

I have only solo gamed since this whole thing started.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 5:49 a.m. PST

Right now I am only gaming with family, so we are already within each others' contact networks, or online, so there is no physical presence. Haven't had a "game day" where a small flock of people come over to the house in months.

Masks don't work. The N95 mask only blocks 95% of .3 micron particles. The virus is .125 microns.

You're not blocking the virus itself, but the particles on which it travels. The virus dies outside the particle environment. SARS-CoV2 (The COVID-19 virus) tends to live longer and is more adverse environments than many other viruses. So it survives in older and smaller droplets than other contagions.

So, if you're wearing a mask for an extended period of time, swap it out. As 20thmaine points out, you're not trying to stop incoming; you're trying to stop spreading to the environment.

Sgt Slag06 Oct 2020 5:49 a.m. PST

Played at a FLGS, Sunday: local law required masks, except when eating/drinking. No choice when in public.

At home, or at a friend's house, playing a game? No, unless they request it (so far, no one has requested it…). No one has contracted the virus yet, either. Cheers!

TodCreasey06 Oct 2020 6:00 a.m. PST

At the club yes. We are following all recommendations from the local health authorities here in Canada and so far no problem

skipper John Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 6:07 a.m. PST

That one fella said we should wear masks at all times, said it would save hundreds of thousand lives. I haven't taken my mask off since… Just doing my part.

Martin Rapier06 Oct 2020 6:19 a.m. PST

In the age of Covid all my wargaming is remote, so I don't have to wear a mask. No point going to a crowded, confined space in close contact with other people who also have chains of social contact just to play a game. It violates the four Cs of epidemic disease transmission right there.

Otherwise I just adhere to whatever the rules and regulations of mask wearing are for the legal jurisdication I'm in (hilariously it is different in each of the nations of the UK, as well as different in different parts of the individual countries).

USAFpilot06 Oct 2020 6:41 a.m. PST

Good discussion. You are correct about water droplets. Masks are designed to keep you (the possibly infected) from spreading the virus to others. Glad people are paying attention to the science and not just blindly following edicts from the state. As been said, masks are not the end all solution but can help to mitigate the spread.

Sgt Slag06 Oct 2020 7:05 a.m. PST

Actually, masks do prevent the wearer from inhaling droplets, to an extent. Proper Droplet Isolation Protocol requires more, though: face mask, eye shield, gown, and gloves. If the mask wearer is infected, he/she will potentially still transmit the virus: they touch their hand to their nose/eyes/face, attaching the virus to their hands; they then touch objects, or people, transferring the virus to whatever they touch; the next person who touches the contaminated object, will soon touch their face/eyes/mouth/etc., transmitting the virus.

The masks become moist, laden with the virus. Wearers do not treat them as contaminated, which they are. They touch every part of the mask, transferring viruses to their hands…

The masks, alone, are not incredibly effective, per the science. They may slow down transmission, a little, but they are not as effective, as people would like to believe. Cheers!

Angstboy2306 Oct 2020 7:51 a.m. PST

quick follow up poll: how many people here are epidemiologists or other experts in the field of pathogen transmission?

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 8:04 a.m. PST

I haven't stopped gaming at my house and we have between 8-12 guys at every game. We've never worn masks nor has anyone ever brought up the subject. Everything continues to go as normally before the virus attack. I do wear a mask when going in stores, etc.

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 8:08 a.m. PST

I haven't gamed with anyone beyond family since this began, so no. However, I'm going to venture out to Autumn Wars this weekend for a day and will wear a mask. If it looks too unsafe, I will not stay.

MajorB06 Oct 2020 8:20 a.m. PST

No.

14th NJ Vol Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 8:34 a.m. PST

Our group is not wearing masks while gaming, however we all do when going out for lunch.

Grelber06 Oct 2020 9:11 a.m. PST

One of the guys has a garage where we've gamed a few times. The doors are open for lots of air flow, and there are only 4-5 of us, so we can social distance. Given that context, I don't wear a mask. I did skip a larger event he held.

Grelber

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 9:18 a.m. PST

quick follow up poll: how many people here are epidemiologists or other experts in the field of pathogen transmission?

Not me, but one of my sister departments at work has half a dozen bio/pathogen subject matter experts on staff. I collaborate with them all the time. In aeons past (or possibly just a few years ago) when I was on active duty I was an NBC and CBR protection officer (the number of aesons ago when we changed the terminology from Nuke/Bio/Chem to Chem/Bio/Rad) . Again, I was not a biologist or epidemiologist, but I worked closely with them in that field.

Masks do not solve the problem. They are highly effective in containing what you have (when worn properly). They are moderately effective in keeping bad stuff out.

Seatbelts will not 100% protect you in every accident. We wear them because they provide a significant improvement in protection.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 9:36 a.m. PST

Not gaming, sadly, but would be willing to wear a mask if gaming with my group.

Masks may help some, or a little, depending upon who you listen to and what day it is. Wasn't too long ago the "experts" were telling us they didn't work and could actually make things worse.

To be effective, you need a triple-layer of fabric, and those cheap, and/or expensive ones everyone is buying and wearing generally aren't made that way.

As mentioned, even the N95 is only rated as 95% effective.

Touch your mask, then your face, or vice versa, as well as other stuff and you are done. Supposedly this virus is very, very contagious, so……..

Reusing the mask for a week, like some employers require you to do defeats the purpose, AND makes it more likely you'll get contaminated.

Here, you have to wear a mask when going into stores, or into restaurants if they are open for takeout. They even want you to wear a mask at some drive-thrus. Cashiers won't help you if you are not wearing a mask, according to the posted signs.

If you want to get critical stuff – food, medicine, etc., etc., you have to play along with the Kabuki Theater.

Note the politicians bleating on and on about this don't follow their own rules, but expect you little people to. Even the talking heads on TV don't either, when infected, supposedly self-quarantining, contagious, and the infamous guy has been outed for that. His brother is a governor.

I will NOT be wearing a mask at ALL times, and certainly NOT when solo gaming, even though some of the talking heads on TV think we should.

You don't need to be an epidemiologist to know what is happening, how things work, and what the facts are, unless "the experts" lie to us again, and again, like some do, to suit their agenda(s).

I'm also not a rocket scientist, but I have built and fired off my own rockets too.

Sgt Slag06 Oct 2020 9:41 a.m. PST

I was required to take Droplet Isolation Protocol Training, annually, for 27 years, until 2017, when I changed jobs.

Had to put it to use a couple of times each year, when I entered infectious patient rooms, in a hospital, to work on PC's within the room. The rooms are marked, outside, with the type of Isolation Protocol required to enter their room.

With Droplet Isolation Protocol, I was required to gown up, don an eye-shield, mask, and gloves, before entering; I was required to remove my eye-shield, mask, gloves, and gown, in a specific order, so as not to touch the outer side of any of them, as they were considered to be contaminated. I had to also wash my hands (sanitizer was not good enough…) prior to gowning up, and again, after removing my Personal Protective Equipment. Touching the outside of them could transmit the disease to me, and I to others, later.

For these reasons, I have no faith in the mask requirement implemented by governments, around the Globe. I follow it because it is the law, not because it is effective. Cheers!

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 9:43 a.m. PST

My son's got a doctorate in biochemistry with connections to John Hopkins and the National Institute of Health. When he talks, I pay attention.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 10:44 a.m. PST

Isnt a little prevention worth a little discomfort

Help protect me a little and I will help protect you a little

Your choice what a little means

14Bore06 Oct 2020 10:52 a.m. PST

I get away without a mask as I can, luckily I play solo but haven't had a game since the beginning of the apocalypse

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse06 Oct 2020 11:10 a.m. PST

Many years ago while in college, I worked the graveyard shift as a surgical scrub aide at a local hospital. We all wore gowns, gloves, caps, and surgical masks, not to block germs, but to keep the scrub team from spitting into the open wound(as they talked) during the procedure.

So, all a mask does is stop you from projecting bodily fluids into the enviroment.

Chimpy Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 11:16 a.m. PST

We had our first game the other day and we did not wear masks. But that's because I trust the guys that I play with to take precautions elsewhere.

I wear a mask when going into a shop or supermarket and will continue to do so even when we drop to level One. Even if it only helps a bit, I'm still an at risk person.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 12:50 p.m. PST

Droplet Isolation Protocol Training

And your job required you to do that when sharing the elevator with other people, talking to patients across a desk, working on duty schedules in a cube next to another employee, and going to the supply cabinet to pick up some more notepads.

Oh? They didn't? You mean it's a specific protocol for carrying out specific medical procedures and not designed for general contagion control in everyday circumstances?

I would wage that your work also several other similar protocols for other more or less risk situations.

Wasn't too long ago the "experts" were telling us they didn't work and could actually make things worse.

I suppose that depends on which experts you listen to.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 1:06 p.m. PST

I am not an infectious disease expert but I did work ER for 30 years and sit on a committee with a bunch of infectious disease docs/epidemiologists

Masks work well if used properly – I wear when when shopping and at work (also 'cause I have to) – only have been solo and e-gaming so that has not come up yet

The most important thing is using common sense

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 4:36 p.m. PST

"I suppose that depends on which experts you listen to".

The ones I'm talking about are the same ones being revered today by some for their opinions, AND their contradictory statements made previously ARE being swept under the rug.

von Schwartz06 Oct 2020 4:37 p.m. PST

Hell NO!

If masks are such a boon to mankind why don't we wear them every flu and cold season? We have had flu outbreaks annually for literally centuries, that infect millions and kill 100s of thousands, no vaccines, no panic, no social distancing, no masks, no shut downs of the world economy. While the Chinese flu is real, the hype and panic surrounding it is most definitely not.

BTW, the reason they call it COVID-19 because it sounds scarier than the "Chinese flu" or the "Wuhan flu". Sounds like something "Arnold" would say in the "Terminator" series. "Careful, they have the new COVID-19 model Terminator".

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 4:59 p.m. PST

Haven't worn a mask & probably won't.We had a game a few days ago & it didn't come up.

Before anyone thinks I'm a chest-thumping, self-proclaimed superman, I should say it isn't compulsory & not a lot of people wear them outside. The reason is simple.

We have Covid under control. In Queensland, we have 1,160 cases, 1,148 cured & only 6 deaths.

If I lived in a place where the government hadn't, by strict & sensible measures, brought things under control, I'd certainly wear a mask.

Things are nearly back to normal here.

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 7:04 p.m. PST

I haven't been gaming since March, and don't expect to any time soon.

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2020 10:44 p.m. PST

COVID-19 is an acronym. In its full form, COVID-19 stands for coronavirus disease of 2019.

Martin Rapier06 Oct 2020 10:53 p.m. PST

"While the Chinese flu is real, the hype and panic surrounding it is most definitely not."

My daughter is a doctor in a central London hospital, and having dealt with wards full of dying people, she might beg to differ.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Oct 2020 3:27 a.m. PST

If masks are such a boon to mankind why don't we wear them every flu and cold season?

First of all, people do. People also effect social distancing. Have you never taken, been told to take, or told others to take a sick day from work?

Second of all, COIVD-19 behaves differently than those diseases. The contagion risk is higher primarily because (1) it is communicable earlier before symptoms present and later after symptoms subside and (2) its virus is viable under significantly more austere conditions so it lasts longer under conditions where other disease causers would die.

While people seem to like the terms "quarantine" and "lock down", when there have been bad outbreaks in the past, we have done actual quarantines … and lock downs.

You have probably never called taking a sick day quarantine or lock down before because you became infectious a couple hours before you started to feel really crappy, and you probably felt it coming on, possibly before you were infectious to others. You've probably also not had a disease that can infect others from contact with a surface you touched hours before, let alone days before.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Oct 2020 3:34 a.m. PST

We have Covid under control.

You live in a society that is several orders of magnitude less interconnected (internally and externally) than the one that is responsible for the creations of many of the capabilities that you daily rely on and in leisure take for granted.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2020 5:11 a.m. PST

I'm assuming you have a point eto.?

Your assertion is ridiculous BTW. Was it meant to be a
non sequitur?

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Oct 2020 12:02 p.m. PST

If I lived in a place where the government hadn't, by strict & sensible measures, brought things under control, I'd certainly wear a mask.

It was a follow up to this further part of your post. Maybe I should have quoted it too.

The point is that you are comparing situations that are not comparable.

Now if you think the degree of interconnectedness of a society and the reasons that society would depend on that interconnectedness are not relevant to the discussion of disease transmission in those societies, I can't really help you clear that up.

Sundance08 Oct 2020 6:47 a.m. PST

Nope.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2020 12:54 p.m. PST

Now, to be safe, you also need to wear goggles, a facial safety shield, and a mask.

Also, we're being told when eating out that you need to put your mask back into place "between bites".

Of course, it is unclear how to do the latter safely, since repeatedly touching your mask IS a hazard too. Perhaps they only want you to take one or two bites on their new diet plan.

Supposedly, a company has developed a mask with a remote control that will open the mask for you, in order to permit you to put food inside your mouth while wearing it at the same time, so you don't have to touch it.

Of course, they didn't answer the obvious question of how effective the mask with a large slit in the middle will be to keep droplets out or in, especially if and when the wearer sneezes.

The insanity is REAL and spreading far more quickly than the Wuhan virus.

von Schwartz09 Oct 2020 5:32 p.m. PST

There are numerous causes here in Florida, and I'm certain many more elsewhere as well, of falsified reports of case numbers and deaths by other causes attributed to COVID-19. We will never know the actual count but in a single incident in a single clinic they reported 100 positive tests out of 100 and no negative results? Really, the laws of averages rule something like that out from the outset. When they went back they discovered that all negative results were simply not being reported at all. Also, in Texas and Florida there have been some anecdotal accounts of people who were in lines for drive through tests but were unable to stay to actually get the test and left only to be notified several days later that they had tested positive. Also, in Texas, one person tests positive, all 16 people on his contact list were reported as positive cases. There has been WAAAY too much hype and hoopla and far too much misinformation and direct lying about results. Someone is admitted to the hospital with a heart attack, and while being treated for the heart attack gets exposed. He dies of heart failure but because he was exposed to COVID-19 cause of death is listed as COVID. Dr. Birx, an early associate of Dr. Fauci, actually admitted that they attribute many deaths by other causes as COVID deaths and appeared to be gleeful about it!!
No, all the hype has been way overblown. Serious issue yes, did we need to shut down the world economy NO!! The Swedes seem to have gotten it right. They slowed down and took reasonable safety measures, children kept going to school, people went to work, they did not shut their economy down, while in Spain they had the most restrictive quarantine measures and shut downs of anywhere and yet the numbers of cases and deaths in the two countries were not statistically different.

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