Wanderlust | 06 Aug 2020 6:05 a.m. PST |
By deep pike formations I mean the likes of "Early Tercios" from FoG:R I thought Breitenfeld was the one that ended deep pike as a trend but then some searches in this board strongly suggests that that is not the case. Well, if so, then when did the armies abandon such tactics? I'm also interested in outlier cases |
Pan Marek | 06 Aug 2020 7:09 a.m. PST |
I believe it was a process over time, not a matter of "on X date, everyone abandoned deep pike". The Osprey "Pike and Shot Tactics, 1590-1660" is a good place to start. |
USAFpilot | 06 Aug 2020 7:20 a.m. PST |
Did it ‘fall out' with advances in firearms? |
Martin Rapier | 06 Aug 2020 7:41 a.m. PST |
As noted above, it varied, as armies adopted smaller, more fire oriented formations (Dutch Order etc). Not many Tercios in the English Civil War. The Thirty Years War(s) were long and sprawling though, with loads of variation. |
DisasterWargamer | 06 Aug 2020 8:21 a.m. PST |
Fire arms and tactics For starters Look at Maurice of Orange as he developed smaller pike more flexible pike formations and other reforms and then the further reforms of Gustav (Sweden) who created even greater flexibility and integration of fire power |
PK Guy Brent | 06 Aug 2020 3:10 p.m. PST |
The start of "modern" artillery. Boom. Lots of men in deep files. Bad combination. |
Wanderlust | 09 Aug 2020 1:44 a.m. PST |
Finally I can post replies. Allow me to change the question for a more specific one: Pre-1630, in which battle were pikemen deployed in deep ranks (say, 24~30 men deep) for the last time even if only a couple of regiments were deployed that way? |
newarch | 09 Aug 2020 6:54 a.m. PST |
Pikes were ridiculous impractical things, and really quite situational in their effectiveness. Bayonets were, after a few teething problems adopted as a much more practical alternative as part of the crossover to a gun equipped army, which was much more versatile and practical. @PK Guy Brent- Soldiers were still deploying in deep files and column formation over a hundred and fifty years after pikes fell out of favour, and suffered dreadful casualties from artillery. |
Martyn K | 09 Aug 2020 1:52 p.m. PST |
In the Osprey book Polish Armies (1569-1696 (2) on page 45 there is an image of the Poles and Lithuanians under Sobieski storming occupied Chocim in 1673. It is a contemporary engraving by Krzczonowicz. There is what looks like a deep pike block on the left of the image flanked by shot on either side. More towards the centre is what appears to be another solid pike block without any flanking shot. Doubt that this is the last example of a pike block, but 1673 gives a target date for others to beat. |
Martin Rapier | 10 Aug 2020 4:13 a.m. PST |
not period relevant, but funnily enough 'deep' formatiosn work very well against HE fire as shell bursts are a sort of butterfly splash, not the circles and oblongs so beloved of wargamers. Which is why 'artillery formation' is a dispersed series of small columns. Roundshot, cannister and shrapnel have different shaped lethal areas though. |