| Wolfhag | 22 Jul 2020 4:36 p.m. PST |
Strong defensive positions are psychologically important. Well-entrenched units are eager to aggressively engage the enemy. The frontal parapet fighting hole, known in the US Army as the DePuy (da-pew) fighting hole, was named after General William E. Depuy: "In World War II…we saw the German soldier…on…rare occasions, nor were we able to suppress him…when I looked…I was impressed by the way he picked positions where his body and his head were protected from frontal fire yet he was able to defend…no matter what we threw at him."3 Some defenders are concerned about the parapet fighting hole being blind to the front PDF link Wolfhag |
| deephorse | 23 Jul 2020 2:07 a.m. PST |
As someone that has tried to set out a platoon defensive position using this method in real terrain, let me tell you that the idea is fine in theory, but it just doesn't work in practice. All the listed disadvantages were precisely the reasons why we abandoned the concept. |
 Legion 4  | 23 Jul 2020 7:04 a.m. PST |
We were trained to use it for some defensive positions. But it really is terrain dependent, etc., … As we were taught generally everything depends on the terrain and situation. Deephorse were you a Rifle Plt Ldr ? |
| deephorse | 23 Jul 2020 8:20 a.m. PST |
Rifle platoon commander in my language! |
| Legion 4 | 23 Jul 2020 8:26 a.m. PST |
Yes in UK language !  In the US Army I was a Rifle and 81mm Plt Ldr, in the 101. Then later an M113 Mech Inf Co. Cdr a long, long time ago.  |
| Wolfhag | 23 Jul 2020 10:50 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the feedback. I never heard of it before. It seems to have some positives and negatives. The big negative I see is in performing FPF unless the occupant could shoot from both sides. I'm not sure how you'd use it in a game. Wolfhag |
| Mark 1 | 23 Jul 2020 4:21 p.m. PST |
I saw a more extensive write-up in one of the armed forces journals several years ago. If I recall correctly it was based on a beach defense. In that article there were diagrams of example layouts. I found it much more obvious what was being described, as just some words about frontal parapets kind of leaves me scratching my head. I have given much thought to making dug-in positions for wargaming based on the frontal defilade concept. I believe a lot of the pakfronts on the Eastern Front (for both sides by late war) were done that way. You see many references to facing defenses that had "interlocking fires" … that does not mean lots of guns firing at you from a few degrees to either side of straight ahead. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
| deephorse | 24 Jul 2020 2:27 a.m. PST |
I never heard of it before. It was a fad that our battalion commander had latched onto somewhere. We tried it in 1980. No-one was trying it in 1981. |
| Legion 4 | 24 Jul 2020 1:40 p.m. PST |
Though trained to do it at Inf Ofc Basic, '79. I can't remember ever using it as a Plt Ldr, '80-'81 or Mech Co. Cdr., '87-'89. You set up interlocking sectors/FOF in any defense. Use terrain camo, cover and concealment, etc. With the Depuy fighting postition, you had to dig in deep, with thick overhead cover, etc., if you were setting up a deliberate defense. As it would take some time. Many times we were not in one position/location for more that 6-8 hrs if that. We were generally moving a lot, mounted or dismounted. We'd usually go into a hasty defense, set up interlocking sectors/FOF, dig hasty fight positions, send out small local security/recon patrols, establish LP/OPs, etc., etc. |
| The Archer | 27 Jul 2020 8:33 a.m. PST |
When I went through basic in 1990, we used both parapet and slit fighting positions for our positions during FEX. When I go to my unit, we didn't do much in the way of ground ops (mechanized mortar) and the fighting position dug at the end of Desert Storm was an open top dug into a berm. So while it was still taught, we never used it for the real deal in 91. not that we were expecting to stay where we were for very long- our digging fighting holes in the berm was kinda a "You know we should have fighting positions while we are laagered here…" |
| Legion 4 | 27 Jul 2020 8:39 a.m. PST |
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| COL Scott ret | 28 Jul 2020 7:53 p.m. PST |
Great if setting up a deliberate defense that you intend to hold for an extended time. Mostly it was hasty fighting positions because after some all to brief rest it was back moving again. Also as everyone else who tried it said terrain, resource and time dependent. |
| Legion 4 | 29 Jul 2020 10:15 a.m. PST |
Yes, that is pretty much my experience too. I think he was thinking about WWIII with masses of USSR/WP forces flooding across the IGB after massive FA Barrages & CAS. The Infantry would dig-in deep and hoped we lived long enough to counterattack with the remains of the rest of NATO … ☠⚰ Unless nukes started getting tossed around … the fighting position would be your grave. 💀👻 |
