"The Tank's Hidden Foe" Topic

"On paper, German anti-tank rocket launchers were an unimaginable terror for enemy tank crews. An infantryman with a light anti-tank weapon capable of penetrating up to 200 mm of armour could be lurking behind every corner and in every window. This weapon was powerful enough to destroy any Allied tank. What was the real effectiveness of the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck, and what did the Allies do to protect themselves from it?

The topic of tank losses was very carefully studied by the American Operations Research Office (ORO). Reports of 12,140 knocked out tanks from all Allied armies were collected and studied after the war. As could be expected, tank and anti-tank cannons were the most common killer of tanks, responsible for 54% of all losses. Anti-tank mines came in second place. Their effectiveness was largely identical between all theatres of war, around 20%. The crews themselves came in at third place. Tanks that were broken down, bogged down, or otherwise disabled outside of combat came in at 13% of total losses. However, here the method of counting differed greatly. The Canadian army and US Marines kept track of non-combat losses much more carefully, and their percentage of losses without enemy action hovered between 25 and 40%. In mountainous regions of Italy, for instance, technical losses could outnumber losses inflicted by the enemy…"
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Amicalement
Armand

How interesting to read here of all the measures considered to protect the tank from an A/T rocket, but finally concluding that the best solution was infantry riding on the thing!

Yep. Forget mesh. What you want is meat armour.

Close infantry support gave synergy.
The infantry could see and hear the enemy far easier than tankers.
The tanks could blow weather enemy small arms fire and blow stuff up.

Glaou like it my good friends!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

How interesting to read here of all the measures considered to protect the tank from an A/T rocket, but finally concluding that the best solution was infantry riding on the thing!

Yes, with the human body being 75% liquid it soaks up a lot of the plasma jet generated by the HEAT warhead.

Wolfhag

Ouch!

Yes, with the human body being 75% liquid it soaks up a lot of the plasma jet generated by the HEAT warhead.

Is the Infantryman's fully kitted out body hard enough to detonate a HEAT round ? Even if not it would stop the round from hitting the AFV. Like ERA or even how chain link fencing works to stop the RPG HEAT warhead from hitting the AFV's armor. As it stops the RPG warhead from hitting the armor. By getting caught in the links.

I've heard even a Tanker's sleeping bag stowed on an M1 in Iraq. Intercepted an RPG round leaving it stuck in the rolled up sleeping bag.

Legion,
Yes, it appears RPG rounds take a lot to detonate. When it impacts a hard surface, a piezoelectric element in the nose crushes and sends an electrical signal through the round to a fuse at the base of explosives positioned behind a hollow copper cone. Either it malfunctions or does not get enough resistance. They also have a timed fuse that goes off at the end of the flight at about 900m or about 3 seconds. If an RPG does not detonate it is probably because of a fuse malfunction.

The ERA deflects the jet. Chain links and bars allow the nose fuse pass between the links and bars without detonating and then crushes the cone making it ineffective even if it does go off.

Hit in the face:
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Stuck in a leg:
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Check this out:
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Has anyone designed this into a modern game?

Wolfhag

I'm guessing the fusing has to be reasonably robust to avoid detonating if it clipped a bush or some such.

Given the engagement ranges for the Panzerfaust any half-alert infantry in the immediate vicinity probably have a reasonable chance of spotting enemy soldiers attempting to get that close unless the cover is very dense. And I'm sure a tank hunting team may not risk and look for an easier target.

Wolf … That is what I thought. Bottom line the tip on the end of the warhead has to hit pretty much dead on solid. As you explained with ERA or chain link, etc., when fired on by an RPG/HEAT type round. I really think ERA was a minor stroke of genius too. ERA blows up the HEAT round. Chain link catches it so to speak.

And sloped armor may also effect it. But if it does explode on an AFV if the armor is thin enough, etc., it will do some damage, as we know.

I'm guessing the fusing has to be reasonably robust to avoid detonating if it clipped a bush or some such.

Yes, IIRC the RPG warhead has a screw off top cap. Taken off before firing. Along with a little cotter pin that had to be removed before firing too. So if the round is dropped when running around, etc., it won't detonate. Been a while …

probably have a reasonable chance of spotting enemy soldiers attempting to get that close unless the cover is very dense.

Yes we were trained with the M72 LAW to ambush an AFV from a covered and concealed position. Just make sure your back blast area is clear. So you'd have to careful and not fire it in an enclosed area, small room, etc.

We would have an M60 MBT run us over in a reinforced concrete foxhole. Then pop-up with an expended training M72 and "take a shot" at the rear of the M60 MBT after it passed over you. Light AT weapons many times are used at close ranges. For a number of reasons.

Given the engagement ranges for the Panzerfaust any half-alert infantry in the immediate vicinity probably has a reasonable chance of spotting enemy soldiers attempting to get that close unless the cover is very dense. And I'm sure a tank hunting team may not risk and look for an easier target.

Yes, that's why the Russians had the tank riders that followed along to give cover. From the videos I've watched, it takes 3-5 seconds to pop up and fire a Panzerfaust. That's enough time to respond with an SMG.

Wolfhag