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"Oddball v Wardaddy" Topic

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1,197 hits since 30 Jun 2020
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Korvessa30 Jun 2020 5:04 p.m. PST

If you watch Kelly's Heroes carefully, and in spite of all his (hilarious) eccentricities, I get the impression that Oddball was a very competent tank commander.

Do you think he was better than Wardaddy (Fury)?

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2020 5:19 p.m. PST

Oh, Oddball was MUCH better than Wardaddy. Oddball made maximum use of cover and misdirection to gain an advantage and he knew better than to charge a Tiger tank across an open field in his Sherman.

Oddball: It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

Big Joe: Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we'll take care of the rest.

Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!

Personal logo Cormac Mac Art Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2020 6:09 p.m. PST

For any Allied tank commander in a Sherman to stay alive while facing Tigers, they had to be good right? I love both of those movies, but never did understand charging the Tiger across an open field.

von Schwartz30 Jun 2020 6:12 p.m. PST

Gee, why not Cormac, they did it alla time in the Haunted Tank comic books, and they only had STUARTS!!!!

WarWizard Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2020 7:47 p.m. PST

I also liked the way Oddball knew how to boost morale by playing loud music when they into battle!

BuckeyeBob30 Jun 2020 8:38 p.m. PST

You will also note that even when "hiding" behind Crapgame's warehouse, the one crew was cleaning out the main gun barrel and Moriarty was doing maintenance on the engine. Shows that Oddball kept his platoon prepared despite his eccentricities.

Heedless Horseman Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2020 9:10 p.m. PST

For the Sherman Troop, sorry, Platoon, in Fury, they were getting hit in the flank, so for 75mm armed Shermans, charging was the only option. What Should have happened would have been 'Fury' as a 76mm staying put and hitting back as 'a sort of 'overwatch'…so 'Wardaddy' wasn't so good. The silly thing was the Tiger charging the Shermans, instead of using its gun from a stable position. However, it was an exciting bit of action! :)

On a 'darker' note…I don't think 'Oddball' forced an execution of a prisoner. I find it rather strange, that there has been much 'horror' over the inclusion of 'the women' incident in Fury. yet very little comment on 'the execution'?

WTH, they are different sorts of movies, with different 'messages'! Fury was a much 'darker' film than Kelly's…which is just a bit of Fun really!

So, back to the 'spirit' of the post…'Oddball' for ME! :)

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2020 9:33 p.m. PST

Oddball by far.

Surely the tank crews' commander, since he knew how to survive, and when to hedge his bets.

Personal logo Narratio Supporting Member of TMP01 Jul 2020 1:49 a.m. PST

Anything else is just negative waves man…

Uparmored01 Jul 2020 2:30 a.m. PST

:thumbs up:

And why has the final scene of Fury become such a meme for "unrealistic American propaganda"???

Audie Murphy REALLY DID the same thing in WW2!

Legion 401 Jul 2020 7:10 a.m. PST

Oddball … "Woof Woof !!" 🐶

williamb01 Jul 2020 8:37 a.m. PST


Eclectic Wave01 Jul 2020 9:53 a.m. PST

oddball for sure. But you have to ask yourself, how in the world was he be able to play music from the speakers mounted on the Sherman tank? It's not like he would have had access to any type of tape or wire reel recording device… I want to know what kind of stabilization he had on the record player!

Korvessa01 Jul 2020 11:32 a.m. PST

Electric W
Have wondered the same thing

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP01 Jul 2020 11:36 a.m. PST

For the Sherman Troop, sorry, Platoon, in Fury, they were getting hit in the flank, so for 75mm armed Shermans, charging was the only option.

No really -- in the movie Fury they could hit the smoke generators and then continued to back up into those woods out of LOS from the Tiger. Then they get on the radio for artillery or air support…

"SugarPie Zero, this is Houndog 7 – Fire Mission…"

Failing that, it would have made more sense if one tank threw WP rounds down range from cover (and not remaining stationary) to mark and occupy the Tiger while the others flanked it.

YouTube link

Korvessa01 Jul 2020 2:47 p.m. PST

Well that's cool

Heedless Horseman Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2020 7:36 p.m. PST

SBminisguy. Sounds good…But!
I must admit that without re-watching the Fury Tiger ambush, I may be in error. However, The Shermans were on a road….which MAY have had ditches. I don't remember how large the trees were, but 'backing up' into trees in a hurry would seem very risky. I would expect the Tiger to take out at least one more Sherman, maybe more…as the Tiger was still in stationary ambush position…with range already effective. Even if in cover, the U.S tanks would have still been 'in the same boat', 'PINNED' and unable to continue, (Not that the crews would have been too bothered, so long as they were not getting hit! lol) Getting on the horn for support WOULD be the preferred call! ;)
(I had forgotten about WP shells…which may well have done the job!) :)
However, I think the premise of 'Fury' was that U.S forces had advanced to the very limits of their capability.. and that much support just wasn't there, yet.
With artillery, PLANNED offensives would have massive artillery support…SOME of which could be called in very quickly, although much would already be 'pre-booked'.
At the limits of extension, troops would have been very lucky to get anything as the arty might not be set up… Just look at the effort needed, (And LUCK!)…to get arty support during the later days of the Arnhem attack!
I may be wrong, but I rather think many gamers have been brought up on the idea that arty could give a rapid…and effective response…due to the Vietnam 'Firebase' concept. But, a 'firebase' had to be in place, in range and with better radio comms!
Unless someone is fighting a battle as part of a PLANNED attack…arty is chancy. There is also the issue of effectiveness? Certainly, in Normandy, (with the Brits, anyway), a 'Forward Observation Officer', with comms to the arty was pretty essential. Lose the FOO and you lost the arty!
I admit that I have no idea how good U.S air support would have been over Germany at this stage in the war, but I suspect that it would have been MUCH reduced from the massive capability over Normandy…with 'Cab Ranks' of aircraft 'just waiting to attack something'! Extension again.
Fury was a 'Movie' in which a tank platoon was sent to 'Plug a Gap'. If aircover had been so great, Spotters and Fighter Bombers would have seen that the SS infantry marching…(in daylight!)…never even got to the crossroad! I don't remember, but presume, that 'Fury' had it's radio 'Fritzed' by then, so could not call in for support!
Anyway, a movie is a movie! :)

Chuckaroobob02 Jul 2020 8:59 p.m. PST

Don't forget Oddball also managed to recruit all the support he needed: engineers, a band, graves registration… who can guess how much artillery and airpower was on call…

Martin Rapier02 Jul 2020 10:59 p.m. PST

The only on call stuff was Mulligans mortars, and they fired a pre planned barrage. The Germans shelled the destroyed bridge crossing, and the only planes were US ones bombing Kelly's halftracks.

Ive maybe seen Kelly's Heroes too many times..

"Have you lost my aerial photographs?"

Legion 403 Jul 2020 7:57 a.m. PST

thumbs up

Uparmored04 Jul 2020 4:05 a.m. PST

I need to watch Kelly's Heroes again. Preferably on Laserdisc (tm)

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP04 Jul 2020 4:29 a.m. PST

There may be no finer example than Kelly's Heroes of film assuming the past to be exactly like the present, complete with hippies and Clint's quiff.

Legion 404 Jul 2020 8:17 a.m. PST

Most Vet's I know love the movie. Albeit very funny, some of what went on in the movie did happen to a degree. E.g. Mulligan's and Big Joe's conversation over the radio about where his mortar rounds were landing, etc., etc.

evil grin

If aircover had been so great, Spotters and Fighter Bombers would have seen that the SS infantry marching…(in daylight!)…
Ah … Maybe … in a combat situation, from what I can tell … Bleeped text happens. Murphy's Law may come into effect … often.

E.g. aircraft that are supposed to be available aren't, landing at the wrong beach or DZ/LZ, supplies and or reinforcements on the way never get there, the flank that was covered is not, etc., etc.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa04 Jul 2020 8:23 a.m. PST

I always assumed Oddball was supposed to be a proto-beat character.

Haven't yet seen Fury yet, but Oddball was extremely wily, though judgement perhaps a little in question when he actually wanted a Tiger!

Legion 404 Jul 2020 8:32 a.m. PST

Yes that is true. Oddball was a bit of anachronism, based on the time the movie was made. As we know that is one of the things that makes it so funny. evil grin

Or Gen Colt, a Patton like character berating his staff. That scene in his HQ was a riot ! Having been on a Bn and Bde staff. evil grin

Garde de Paris06 Jul 2020 1:22 p.m. PST

WarDaddy had a MAJOR deathwish as the result of killing his girlfriend Rose, and younger brother Norman in an auto accident before the war. Scene "Rose" delete from Fury:

YouTube link

Legion 406 Jul 2020 3:33 p.m. PST

Thanks !!

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2020 3:42 p.m. PST

GdP has pointed out a scene left on the cutting-room floor (oy, what an anachronism that statement is) that really should have been left in -- it takes the WarDaddy character development down an entirely different path than what we were left with.

(aka: Mk 1)

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2020 9:22 a.m. PST

There are other scenes only to be found on YouTube that explain much that goes on. You only have to see the extended versions of Bladerunner (I),early Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings to know what content can be lost.

Conversely of course Tora Tora Tora was a massive disappointment and I am amazed the deleted scenes from SPR have never been shown. They are well documented but Spielberg can get very George Lucas like…

Korvessa08 Jul 2020 9:50 a.m. PST

They should have left that in

Korvessa09 Jul 2020 12:21 p.m. PST

reminds me of the three musketeers when Athos tells the new kid (D'Artagnan) something he has withheld from his friends of many more years

Buck21523 Aug 2020 8:38 p.m. PST

Oddball. He cared about keeping his men alive, even having modified engines on his Shermans to go just as fast in reverse as forward. He wanted his guys to get out of trouble as quickly as they got into it. And what better morale boosters than firing shells with paint in them and playing loud music as they go into battle to calm his men? Also, Oddball would get his men women, no matter where they were or what they were doing. Yeah, I could hang out with Oddball- he made WW2 fun!

Mobius24 Aug 2020 8:17 a.m. PST

War Daddy destroyed a Tiger tank, Oddball bought a Tiger tank.

Legion 424 Aug 2020 9:23 a.m. PST

Good points !!!! "WOOF"! "WOOF"!

Korvessa15 Sep 2020 12:02 a.m. PST

Oddball destroyed two Tigers, didn't he?

Legion 415 Sep 2020 8:37 a.m. PST

2 Tigers KO'd and 1 bought … not a bad days work !

von Schwartz15 Sep 2020 9:45 a.m. PST

Heedless Horseman
I tend to agree with pretty much everything you mentioned but hey…if they'd listened to you they wouldn't have made the movie and we wouldn't be able to critique it and pick it apart. Also, let us not forget about the need in films for, "Suspension of Dis-belief."

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