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"Brigade generals in Friant's division." Topic


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Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2020 5:46 a.m. PST

I have Napoleons' finest, and I'm looking at the Auerstadt battle. The OOB is for October and states that it was different from the day of the battle, while reading about the battle it says Lochet commanded the brigade with the 108th regiment. But I can't find any clear answer to the brigade structure in any OOB. The book says Keister commanded 33rd and 48th in the actual battle, and Lochet only commanded the 111th. That means Grandeau is left with the 108th. But why would then Lochet give orders to the 108th?

BillyNM21 Jun 2020 9:22 a.m. PST

According to NAFZIGER
Battle of Auerstädt
III Corps: Maréchal Davout (1 October)
1st Division: Général de division Morand
Brigades: Généraux de brigade Debilly, d'Honieres, Brouard
1/13th Légère Regiment (24/736)
2/13th Légère Regiment (24/725)
Staff/13th Légère Regiment (13/17)
1/17th Line Regiment (23/1,000)
2/17th Line Regiment (23/996)
Staff/17th Line Regiment (9/14)
1/30th Line Regiment (23/812)
2/30th Line Regiment (26/814)
3/30th Line Regiment (5/174)(Volts. & Grens.)
Staff/30th Line Regiment (10/14)
1/51st Line Regiment (24/918)
2/51st Line Regiment (26/929)
3/51st Line Regiment (6/174)
Staff/51st Line Regiment (10/12)
1/61st Line Regiment (27/918)
2/61st Line Regiment (37/908)
3/61st Line Regiment (6/180)
Staff/61st Line Regiment (9/13)
Artillery: Major Vasseras
Det/5th Light Artillery (100)(6-4pdrs)
11/7th Foot Artillery (3/100)(5-8pdrs, 2 howitzers)
1/, 6/1st Principal Train Battalion (2/130)
2nd Division: Général de division Friant
Brigades: Généraux de brigade Kister, Lochet, Grandeau
1/33rd Line Regiment (27/826)
2/33rd Line Regiment (27/832)
3/33rd Line Regiment (6/204)(Grens. & Volts.)
Staff/33rd Line Regiment (9/14)
1/48th Line Regiment (27/774)
2/48th Line Regiment (26/744)
Staff/48th Line Regiment (9/11)
1/108th Line Regiment (25/777)
2/108th Line Regiment (27/758)
Staff/108th Line Regiment (7/13)
1/118th Line Regiment (32/943)
2/118th Line Regiment (30/953)
3/118th Line Regiment (6/172)(Volts. & Grens.)
Staff/118th Line Regiment (1/13)
Artillery: Chef de Bataillon Villeneuve
2/7th Foot Artillery (3/84)(5-8pdrs, 1 howitzer)
2/5th Horse Artillery (1/44)(2-4pdrs)
3/, 6/1st Principal Train Battalion (1/114)
Division: Général de division Gudin
Brigades: Généraux de brigade Petit, Gauthier
1/12th Line Regiment (36/886)
2/12th Line Regiment (25/930)
3/12th Line Regiment (6/172)(Grens. & Volts)
Staff/12th Line Regiment (8/13)
1/21st Line Regiment (28/964)
2/21stLine Regiment (26/959)
3/21stLine Regiment (9/280)
Staff/21stLine Regiment (9/12)
1/25th Line Regiment (27/899)
2/25th Line Regiment (25/911)
Staff/25th Line Regiment (9/12)
1/85th Line Regiment (28/994)
2/85th Line Regiment (26/985)
3/85th Line Regiment (6/173)(Grens. & Volts.)
Staff/85th Line Regiment (6/11)
Artillery: Chief d'Esquadron Pelegrin
3/7th Foot Artillery (2/81) (5-8pdrs, 1 howitzer)
2/5th Horse Artillery (1/42)(2-4pdrs)
4/, 5/1st Principal Train Battalion (1/120)
Artillery Reserve & Park: Colonel Geoffrey
2/, 3/7th Foot Artillery (1/51)
15/7th Foot Artillery (4/95)
1/5th Horse Artillery (3/88)
Artillery Artisians (1/21)
1/, 3/, 4/1st Principal Train Battalion (0/63)
2/1st Principal Train Battalion (0/93)
5/1st Principal Train Battalion (5/63)
1/3rd (bis) Train Battalion (1/94)
2/3rd (bis) Train Battalion (1/86)
3/3rd (bis) Train Battalion (1/100)
6/3rd (bis) Train Battalion (0/21)
Drafted Teamsters (0/20)
6/2nd Sapper Battalion (2/71)
Gendarmes (2/36)
(6 Austrian 12pdrs, 3-8pdrs, 3 howitzers)
Corps Cavalry: Général Viallannes
Staff/1st Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/4)
1/1st Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (6/152)
2/1st Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (6/164)
3/1st Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (6/164)
Staff/2nd Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/3)
1/2nd Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/184)
2/2nd Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (8/172)
3/2nd Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/175)
Staff/12th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/4)
1/12th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (8/172)
2/12th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (7/167)
3/12th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (8/167)

SHaT198421 Jun 2020 4:43 p.m. PST

And there's the problem with some of N. lists- sanitised beyond recognition in numerical order; no structure, out of context etc.

Look first at previous campaign- "most" of the Grande Armée Corps (corps) remained very close to the first model. IE few changes made in actual structure in '06 and '07.

As to your last question (depending upon sources confirming such)- who was present? Who was senior? What action was being taken?

At Austerlitz (remember only 10 months before) St.Hilaire gave orders [in the heat of battle] to one of his brigades (Ferey) that had been 'detached' by Napoleon hisself [at least the day before battle] to Vandammes Division while defending the Russo-Austrian counter-attacks on the Pratzen ridge.

Technically he was no longer their commander at that point- but they'd trained and campaigned together since 1803 so trust and command were maintained and consistent.
I'll look more closely into resources, tho I have no original documentation like I do for 1805,
regards dave

Allan F Mountford22 Jun 2020 1:13 a.m. PST

I don't believe you will find a fixed brigade structure in III Corps. It is a while since I looked at this campaign, but I do recall that Davout maintained a pool of senior officers at Divisional level and they were allocated troops on a task by task basis.
Part of the reason III Corps was so successful, of course.

Prince of Essling22 Jun 2020 1:57 a.m. PST

I agree with Allan – see H C B Rogers "Napoleon's Army" who drew on the "Opérations du 3e corps, 1806-1807; rapport du Maréchal Davout … publié par son neveu le Général Davout … Avec portraits et cartes by Davout, Louis Nicholas, duc d'Auerstaedt et prince d'Eckmühl, 1770-1823 Publication date 1896 has no brigade breakdown PDF link

However there is this but I cannot drilldown to look at the sources: link

von Winterfeldt22 Jun 2020 5:45 a.m. PST

I had a glance at Foucart, yes Kister commanded 33e de ligne and 48e de Ligne,
Lochet – 108e de ligne and Grandeau – 111e de ligne

The translation of Bressonnet – Napoleon's apogee gives for 33e de ligne, for Grenadiers and Voltiguers of 3rd battalion 6 officers and 180 rank and file and NCOs (see conflicting numbers to Nafziger)

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