"miracle wash/dip" Topic
22 Posts
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dapeters | 14 Jun 2020 7:58 a.m. PST |
At least ten years ago I tried to make a miracle wash/dip like minwax's Tudor polyshade. Like most, the smell of the minwax product even a year later, was off putting and then there was the clean-up. The problem was the washes I made never work quite like minwax. About two months ago I stumbled on my experiment from ten years ago. I tried it on some terrain and then some figures, I was pretty excited. I am guessing that the little evaporation occurred (but not much?) So for my esteemed mentors and for those of you who know EXACTLY what I am talking about, can you please give me your recipe for this. I know that I had use future and a black ink back, in the day, but I don't want to recreate that, I want what I have now. Thanks in advance. |
torokchar | 14 Jun 2020 8:11 a.m. PST |
I recommend Army Painter Quickshade – no formula', no mess and a can will last a long time: link hopefully your local store can get it for you! |
Saber6 | 14 Jun 2020 9:02 a.m. PST |
lots of 'recipes' on youtube as to MinWax clean up, I just wait until I have a big enough batch, use a cheap brush then toss it |
The Nigerian Lead Minister | 14 Jun 2020 9:42 a.m. PST |
I'm with Torokchar. I experimented, had trouble with stickiness, smell, and clean up. Then I tried the Army painter stuff and I'm sold. Sure it costs more but it gets it done, no evil smell/clean up/sticky mess, finishes my figures, and I am happy with it. |
IronDuke596 | 14 Jun 2020 10:02 a.m. PST |
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CeruLucifus | 14 Jun 2020 10:30 a.m. PST |
I suggest you look at magic wash made with Future. The important considerations are to make a wash with varnish that is thin enough to flow where you want. As it dries, the varnish recedes into the recesses of the sculpture, pulling the pigment with it. The classic "magic wash" for modelers uses Future floor polish from Johnson & Johnson. This is its old name. I haven't bought any in years (a 22 oz bottle lasts forever) but in the US it was called Pledge with Future Shine for a while and now I think is Pledge Floor Gloss. It is basically acrylic gloss varnish that smells nice. Mix a bottle of magic wash mixture of 1:1 Future with wet water. Wet water means add a few drops per cup of dishwasher rinse aid or other surfactant. Filtered or distilled water is a good idea. Mix and let sit so the bubbles rise out. Use this to make your washes. I generally start about 8:1 magic wash mix to paint. You can airbrush magic wash. Indeed, you can airbrush Future straight out of the bottle as a gloss varnish. Alternatives – any acrylic gloss varnish should work for the same purpose. When I've used up my Future I will probably try Liquitex Gloss Varnish since I've got some. Also, Liquitex and other artist paint lines sell Flow-Aid which is concentrated surfactant for enhancing flow when thinning paint. Follow the mixing directions on the bottle. Swanny's Models' The Complete Future, classic old web site: link Fine Scale Modeler with current name for Future floor polish: link |
Sgt Slag | 14 Jun 2020 12:52 p.m. PST |
Flow aid is a good idea; watering down Pledge Gloss Floor Shine dilutes the sealant, which I guess I've never seen the need for. I do not add water, at all. A drop, maybe two, of dish wash-up soap, is a fine flow aid: it breaks the water tension effect, allowing the Magic Wash mixture to flow freely into every nook and cranny and recess. Add any water/alcohol based ink, or your desired acrylic paint, as a tinting agent. Add tint, slowly; apply to a test figure, to see the finished effect. I recommend using plastic army men miniatures for test figures, they have more recesses than most people realize -- use gray army men figures, if possible, so the plastic will have minimal effect on the color applied to them. Paint your base color onto their bare plastic, let it dry for 20 minutes, if using acrylic paint, then apply your Magic Wash mix, wait 20 minutes, and check the results. When finished, the paint and Magic Wash should rub off fairly easily, making the test figure ready for the next painting session. Almost nothing will stick permanently to the polyethylene plastic army men are made from… Mix up your Pledge base solution with dish soap. Mix it, as needed, in a small dish-type paint pallette, to the desired shade of wash. Your base mix will last many years… Let us know how it works for you. Cheers! |
Attalus I | 14 Jun 2020 3:30 p.m. PST |
I've been using Minwax Tudor Brown Polyshades for years. I like to paint it on with a brush, so I have more control. I have a box fan in the room to disapate the smell. I use mineral spirits to clean the brush, no problems. |
coopman | 14 Jun 2020 6:35 p.m. PST |
My Minwaxed minis still stink 30 years later. There has to be a better way. |
Yellow Admiral | 15 Jun 2020 8:53 a.m. PST |
I've never had any problem with Minwax odor, but it is a polyurethane, which yellows with time. The yellowing is mostly not noticeable over colors, but does affect white and off-whites. I have some Napoleonic Austrians that are getting gradually yellower over the years. Yech. I'm also trying out various acrylic-only magic washes, but I'm new to this technique, so I'm really happy to see others' formulas. There are a LOT of acrylic medium products in the world, so there's plenty to experiment with. I would really like to develop a formula that can be tuned to dry flatter or shinier as needed. - Ix |
tabletopwargamer | 15 Jun 2020 2:43 p.m. PST |
Screw all that messing around. Just buy a tin of army painter! |
Sgt Slag | 15 Jun 2020 9:03 p.m. PST |
Messing around is fun, and inexpensive. It is also a fun challenge. Back in the 1970's, there were no pre-made formulas. Everything was made up by the hobbyist. I enjoy this approach. It's fun. Cheers! |
rampantlion | 17 Jun 2020 11:45 a.m. PST |
Army Painter is super easy and no odor that I can pick up. |
CAPTAIN BEEFHEART | 17 Jun 2020 1:48 p.m. PST |
I Love to experiment with paint, either by necessity or design. It doesn't always work out but when it does, the rewards are darn like rewarding (or something). |
dapeters | 19 Jun 2020 8:09 a.m. PST |
LOL Thanks to all of you who actually answered the question I posted. The fact that I smell a noxious odors from minwax and other don't, tells me that probably the same applies to army painter. To me turpentine has a foul smell almost as bad as minwax it is not good to expose your skin to it. Consequently Army painter is really not different just three times the price, I am also very leary of products that are specifically made for our hobby not saying there can't be good things but I don't like being rip off either. LOL SGT Slag, we been talking about this for at least 17 years. We are all older now, I only want experiments that succeed, fun is so conditional. I know you have gone through the same evolution. During this stay at home time, I have been resurrecting projects that are nearly as old, hence I need something that replicates earlier work. So with that in mind what could I please ask you what portions and materials would you use to replicate the tudor miniwax polyshade, I promise if it goes sideways I will only blame myself. |
Sgt Slag | 19 Jun 2020 9:05 a.m. PST |
If you are asking what you can use to replicate Tudor Polyshades effect, without using solvent-based Minwax, the answer is surprisingly simple, and easy: Pledge Floor Gloss + Black Craft Paint. Minwax's Tudor is really just a black tone, suspended within Polyurethane. If you add black craft paint to Pledge Floor Gloss, you will gain the same effect, without the odor. The Pledge Floor Gloss will also dry to the touch, within 15 minutes, being fully cured within 24 hours. You might want to add a couple of drops of liquid dish soap to your bottle of Pledge, first: this will act as a wetting agent, breaking the sufrace tension, allowing the Pledge + Black Paint mixture to flow more freely into nooks, crannies, and recesses. The reason I still use Minwax Polyshades products, is the ease of use. The smell has grown on me, over the years. To use the Magic Wash/Pledge mix, I have to mix it up, every time -- it is never as consistent as the Minwax. Note that the Minwax needs to be thoroughly mixed, prior to use, but I've come across a method using a handheld jig saw, and a clamp, for paint/Minwax mixing. The ratio of paint, to Pledge, is more by sight, than volume. I use black Magic Wash so rarely, that I don't have a ratio even as a starting point. Sorry. You can, however, mix it on a white ceramic bathroom tile, next to a spot of Minwax Tudor Polyshades, side-by-side, to get the correct color (it should work… I hope). If I misunderstood your question, let me know. Cheers! |
Bowman | 21 Jun 2020 9:45 a.m. PST |
One other benefit with the Pledge+stain+surface conditioner route is the speed that the figures dry. I don't generally slop the material on too much, so there is not a large amount pooling in the crevasses. If I'm staining 10 figures, by the time I'm done with figure #10 I can start highlights on figure #1. (Sometimes) |
dapeters | 22 Jun 2020 5:23 p.m. PST |
Wow Sgt Slag you have come full circle. I recall you being bother by the odor. I have had a bottle of Future that nearly still full. I actually never had a problem with storing unused minwax or getting ready to use and I've always painted instead of actually dipping. I would not be asking this if my ten+ years little plastic tubes had not produced almost identical results (when I made them I don't recall them being any where close to similar.) But Thanks anyway. Bowman when you say "stain" what are you using? |
Bowman | 06 Jul 2020 3:13 p.m. PST |
Sorry, just saw this. The "stain" is usually Liquitex Acrylic Ink, and usually from Michaels. I get black, dark brown and a sienna brown. I usually stain the miniatures with brown and not black, but I just like that look better. Black is for armour and rocky terrain. |
dapeters | 07 Jul 2020 8:55 a.m. PST |
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Yellow Admiral | 10 Jul 2020 12:07 p.m. PST |
I ran my own experiment tinting Future with acrylic inks, and it was super easy and worked reasonably well. I use FW acrylic inks, but I think there are other brands that are similar. I don't have any formula yet, I just filled a 3/4 oz bottle with Future and added drops of ink until I was happy with the tint. I tested the tint between each addition of ink by mixing it up and then spreading a brushful on the paper. I deliberately left the bottle of "wash" with a light tint – I can always darken it if I want to. So far I've made two pre-mixed washes, black and sepia. The neat thing about this technique is that I can use any colors I want. The only hard part is finding tints that are dark enough – I tried making a dark green wash for some late war Zeroes painted deep green, and I couldn't get it dark enough, so I ended up using sepia instead. On a lighter green base I probably would have had more success. Another cool thing about Future is that ammonia is the clean-up agent, so in the case of a mistake you can get a lot of it off the miniature without attacking the paint job underneath. My biggest problem with Future as a clearcoat is that it dries really glossy, but that's a problem with Minwax too. It's solved easily enough by spraying with a satin/matte/flat coat afterward. Because of local seasonal weather conditions, I'm extremely interested in having a brush-on flat coat, so I've also been experimenting with making a flat Future. My first experiment was mixing in Tamiya Flat Base, but I can't get this flatter than "satin" without introducing a cloudy white color. I also tried mixing with Valejo flattening agent, and that didn't work at all. I'm still looking for a solution. - Ix |
Yellow Admiral | 10 Jul 2020 12:20 p.m. PST |
FWIW, The Complete Future web site has been a great resource for me. There are no precise tinting formulas, but there is a lot of information, including some good advice about avoiding undesirable chemical reactions. - Ix |
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