"How do I like the Battlesystem Rules?" Topic

I was asked how I like the Battlesystem Rules, so here Goes.

Short Answer, I like them.

While I haven't played many other rulesets, I still have to say, I like the Battlesystem rules. I have a relatively few games in, but have read or observed other rulesets.

I have been playing the 2nd edition rules, but acquired the 1st edition shortly after they came out, and maybe only got one game in, using the supplied counters instead of minis. Everyone I know, only wanted to Dnd so, thats mostly what we did, dnd( 1st ed AD&D(which I am still a fan of even though havent played in a couple decades)).

One of the great things about the Battlesystem rules is that they are quite adaptable. Army lists are easily creating because of the vastness of the Dnd literature. I really dont understand why they are not more popular with wargamers then they are!

THe way I see it why they never really caught on was because of 3 different reasons. \
1st- they originally finally came out about the time that TSR was in the process of kicking Gygax out of his own company, and hence, not really fully supported/marketed.

2nd- people tryed to blend AD&D roleplaying with the Wargaming. Even though it was suggested you can do that, I think its quite hard to pull it off, blending the two together, especially for teenage kids, who did not have the wargaming background, nor the financial capabilites to buy and paint miniature armies to do it with.

3rd- Battlesystem is a wargame, not really a RPG, even though its by TSR. I think the wargamers shunned it because at that time, the wargaming community had a lot of animosity against D&D and Gygax (I think some of them still do). The funny thing was, and not sure if many people realize this, but looking back on it, Basic Dnd was the RPG ( as per Arneson's Game, and what Gygax printed in his AD&D was actually the continuation of his Fantasy Wargame ( the Grandson of Chainmail ( which as a teen, I always wanted to try, but never even saw a ruleset) ( the son of Chainmail was Swords and Spells which never went anywhere). ( I need to continue this someday in another post)

Anyway, one of the great things that Battlesystem offers is versatility. You have books full of monsters to feild armies lists with, with just enough detail to make it work. You have stats for everything, and giving the original idea of AD&D, it was modifiable by the DM, hence it was modifiable in Battlesystem. You want a 2 Hitdice orc- You got it! in either system. You have rules for everything, yet you have versatility from the system.

Another great feature of the Battlesystem rules, is that it was designed as a battle resolution system, and not filled with lot of gamey gimicks. THere are a lot of gaming systems that in my view, play more like a tournament system, with heavy game mechanics just for game sake, which is something I dont like.

I am quite surprised that many historical wargamers don't use Battlesystem as their ruleset. ( I think that the ist edition may be better at this then the second, but not sure, need to play a game or two of the 1st ed.). Given all of the information in the DMG and Players handbook, you can feild just about any historical army using modifiers for various weapons and armor types. (hint, hint.. AD&D was actually a WARGAME… not a RPG like most of us always thought it was, it just had the RPG stuff added on to the Wargame).

Anyways… the short answer.. Versatility, Versatility, Versatility! and it covers the bases well.

interesting review. How do the basic mechanisms – command, morale, shooting, hth – work? I did play both Chainmail and Sword and Spells. I liked both at the time. I expect I would find them much less appealing now. I imagine that the rise of GW's rules took over the popular fantasy market.

I bought a used copy of 2nd edition Battle System and played a game many many years ago. I remember as a kid playing AD&D and really wanting Battle System when it first came out but it was not to be. I thought that the rules read pretty good but there were a few aspects of the game I didn't care for. Combat was always a double roll of dice. First to see if you hit, then the defender gets to roll an armor class save to see if you really hit. It was near impossible to take down a unit with good AC and more than 1 hit point per figure. I'd rather seen a single chart comparing the roll results to AC with just one roll of the dice to see if you hit. But you are right in that there is versatility and you could even use the rules as a base and write your own modifications.

I haven't played any other fantasy rules (and only once with BS), but would like to see a side by side comparison with other rule sets I've heard about. Maybe Hordes of the Thing and Fantasy Rules!.

Well said, Albus Malem! Well said!

2e BattleSystem is a direct descendant of Chainmail, Swords & Spells, and 1e BattleSystem: there is a refinement process evident if you read through them, successively. IMO, 2e BS is the very best of them all, but I've only played 2e BS, having just read its predecessors. It is streamlined for faster play, relying upon die rolls to determine outcomes, with tactics playing a significant role in giving players a chance to win.

Each figure able to fight, rolls an Attack Die (AD). So if you have a line of 50 Goblins, able to attack a similar number of opponents, the controlling player will roll 50 AD (typically, a d6, for most troop types, but it varies between d4-d12), for their attack. The Defending forces roll a d10, for each "Hit" their opponent scores: if the d10 roll is equal to, or higher than, the Armor Rating (AR), the Hit bounces off of the defender's armor, and counts for naught. Each successful Hit, is counted against the defending group: remove that number of Hits from the unit's figures. Each figure typically has one, or a few, Hits; most troops only have one hit, per figure, so a casting is removed for each Hit, or when sufficient Hits call for elimination of one, or more, figures.

When the AD are rolled, a Hit is only scored on a roll of 4, or higher; the higher the number, the more "Hits" scored, based on number groupings: 4-5=1 Hit; 6-9=2 Hits; 10-12=3 Hits. So, if a Giant has an AD 12, each Giant figure attacking, rolls a d12. If they roll a 10-12, they score 3 Hits; the Defending troop Unit must roll 3d10 for Armor Checks. If the Giant's single attack scoring three Hits, which all penetrate, the Defender must remove 3 hits from the Unit.

Missile weapons fire during any Movement Phase, for Bows, or during the Missile Phase (Bows fire their second shot during this Phase), for X-bows, Slings, Darts, Spears, Giant's hurled stones, Siege Engines, Cannons/Guns, etc. It is pretty straightforward. Bowmen can move, or shoot, but not both: if they fire during their enemy's Movement Phase, they cannot move in their's; if they move during their Movement Phase, they cannot fire during their enemy's Movement Phase.

Charging is allowed for all living troops; mindless Undead troops are not allowed to Charge, normally -- they just walk into combat. Intelligent Undead may Charge, if the DM/Judge/group of players decide it should be allowed.

Some troops have fear/terror effects: Undead, Dragons, High Priests (Awe, for good aligned), which greatly affects Morale. Morale is critical in 2e BS games: troops who fail, can either become Shaken (can only initiate attacks on the flank, or rear; can receive attacks normally), or they can Route (make a Morale Check every Movement Phase: success = Shaken; failure = Route Movement). There is a Rally Phase, at the beginning of each side's Movement Phase, in every Turn.

Morale Check triggers, after the first, are cumulative, adding an additional -1 modifier on the single Morale Check, caused by the first Morale Check trigger. So if a Unit suffers a single Morale Check trigger, it is normal; if they suffer additional Morale Check triggers, their Morale rating effectively goes down, and their chances of being Shaken, or Routing, goes up.

The rules allow you to build new Units of any creature types you can come up with. In other words, the game's Unit rosters can be expanded, as desired. The game can handle SF alien races, or any mythological creatures you care to come up with stats for.

2e BS can easily be adapted to historical Units, if desired. It does have rules for early black powder guns, but I never use them -- personal choice.

The 2e rules are available as a PDF download, for $4.99 USD, from DriveThruRPG.com, as well as other related sites.

I will soon be sending the Editor of TMP several files related to 2e BS rules: Index (much needed); uniformly sized Spell, and Magic Item cards for print; Night Rules (authored by others); and possibly some other files. Bill will be adding them to the rules directory, making them available for anyone to download from TMP. Cheers!

Hi Sgt Slag, that would be very much appreciated. I bought the rules from DriveThruRPG.com only a couple of weeks ago.

Everyone:

I sent 11 PDF files for the 2e BattleSystem game to the Editor. I own the copyright on 10 of the 11 -- not sure the Editor will post the Night Rules file, as I do not own that one. I did not put any copyright notices within my 10 files, and I gave permission for them to be shared with the Internet at large.

I hope he will share a download link for the files, shortly. However, if there is an issue with that, or if you do not wish to wait for the Editor to share them here, on TMP, let me know. I can e-mail them to you: they are around 1.2 MB, total (zero images, all text), in PDF format. Cheers!

Set. slag. I would love copies of those files! Jvincentp@aol.com

Thanks!

The Bibliophile: files sent. Cheers!