"Flags for landsknechts?" Topic

As mentioned in my previous posting, I am completely new to the Renaissance period, and so I hope my question isn't a stupidly naive one!

I am currently working on a pike-block of about 48 Warlord Games landsknechts. My question is about their flags.

How many flags would a typical pike-block have (I hope more than one, as that would look good!). If more than one, what would be a combination of flags that could fly in the same block?

For example, the Warlord Games box came with five flags:
1. Imperial colour with Karl V slogan
2. City of Memminen
3. Cross of Burgundy
4. City Of Nurnburg
5. Georg van Frundsberg

Could several of these fly together in one block (eg: could one block carry all three of 1,3 & 4)?

Oh, and one other question. When I arrange my 48 chaps into their pike-block, where should I put my flag-bearers, and also my other command figures (officer, drummer, a couple of two-handed sword etc)?

In the front rank, as horse-and-musket gamers often do?

Or tucked into the middle of the block so the front rank is entirely pikes?

Simple answer: nobody has a clue.

What flags were carried, where, by who, nobody knows.

Stick a couple of flags in the unit and play toy solders.

Most pictures I have show banners and banner guards in the centre of the formation.

I would definitely not put the officer, drummer, fifer etc in the front rank of a pike block. In the middle or rear would be better. The big, bold flags are one of the things that make a pike block have that "wow factor". 4 or 5 flags for a block of 48 figures wouldn't be excessive. I tend to use 1 per rank of miniatures, and stagger them along the width of the unit. That gives them maximum visibility.

Experiment a bit and see what looks best to you!

(Fantastic painting on your Landsknechts too, by the way!)

From what I have seen those Renaissance pike units loved lots of big pretty flags – the more the merrier and I agree, those beautiful figs need beautiful flags!

I use approximately 4 flags per 96 landsknechts. The flags are typically my conjectural designs usually sporting a cross. And remember, the typical landsknecht (and Swiss) banner is mounted on a short pole and waved with one hand.

Agree that normally in battle, I'd expect most of the command elements in the center. But unless you're gluing all 48 to a single stand, surely they can march through town with flags and drummers forward and more them back for combat?

Flags. As long as the patterns chosen are all "on the same side" if you will, you can always claim the pike block is a consolidation. That said, what one (sometimes) sees a little later and may have existed by this time is a flag per company with all the flags of a regiment having the same colors but different patterns. Might be something to consider. But don't lose a lot of sleep over it or build something you're not happy with. There's a lot of slippage here--things we don't know, or things where there was historical variation. We call this "opportunity."

On the question of how many flags, my personal preference is to fit in as many as I can without them looking overcrowded. As Herkybird showed, there are a lot of images with these flags located in a row, half to two thirds of the way back in the pike block.
For 24 figure pike blocks I would use a minimum of two flags, for 36 figure pike blocks, I have a minimum of three. As the flags are located in a single row, this gives a non flag figure between each flag figure. I find that it is best to space them in this way.
Here is a 100 figure piked block where I have 7 flags.

Here are some 144 figure Swiss pike blocks where I have about 15 flags each per block over 2 rows. I have since moved the flags a couple of rows further forward as they were too far back for my liking.

I would probably use four or five flags for a 48 figure block.

On choosing flags for Landsknecht Pike blocks, you reminded me that I need to do some research and a blog post on this subject. Last year I did a post on choosing flags for Swiss Pike blocks. Here is the link, it shows some of the things that I consider when selecting flags.

link

First of all, I would decide who your pike block is serving. Is it in French service or the service of the Holy Roman Empire? If the former, I would put flags with the French style Cross into the pike block (as in the picture of the Landsknecht Pike block shown above). You could even put one with Fleur de Lis in there. Pete's flags does an excellent sheet for the Black Band in French Service.

If the block is in imperial service, I would always put something with an Imperial Eagle in there because it looks cool. Then maybe some diagonal cross type flags. I would then add a regional flag or two and perhaps one of the larger cities in one of those regions. If I was doing an historical battle, I might try and find which regions were represented in a pike block. If a notable leader was there, such as Von Frundsberg, I would then consider adding the leaders flag.

Please do not use flag 1 of WGs set. The pillars of Gibraltar were either Karls personal or later a Spanish symbol, no Landsknechts would have used that.

On the distribution, Flags are usually in the center of the formation. In addition to the main unit, who would sport the Flag of the commander, function and sometimes sponsoring organization (like Dukal or city flag) each subunit, called "Fähnlein" in German, would have its own flag.

Formations often have all the unit flags in the center, though larger formations sometimes sport the Fähnlein-flags spread around, though still some ranks from the outer ranks.

If you look at contemporary battle depictions you will get a good impression where the flags should go.

The contingent flags were usually the coat of arms, either of the prince, bishop, city or county that raised the formation. If they were in imperial service there may be an imperial flag, too. Armies often had functional flags, especially imperials, like the "Rennfahne", the black/white flag with the red crossed sword.

Fähnleins usually had no emblem but were often striped and crossed – I have yet to find a good source, though. My guess is they were formed to the taste of the commanding officer or by ordonnance of the raising organization. A Fähnlein was ideally some 500 (of which 10% would be arquebus, 10% Doppelsöldner, the rest pike), but in reality that rarely worked out and Fähnlein could be as small as 200 and as large as 800 – though they sometimes merged or split to level out again.
Depending on the scale you want to achieve you could add Fähnlein-Flags into them and weight that against what looks good.

I would put the drum and officers (some helbards) with the flag in the center.

This image gives a good impression how flags in a larger unit would look. As its given to show Pavia the units would be some 5000 strong and sport around 10-12 flags in reality, with the Fähnlein flags being distributed more then the central main flags. You will find other depcitions that show all flags in the center.

Thanks for all the useful advice, guys. You've given me some good ideas for my project. I'll keep you updated how I go.