"Italian Levy Flags" Topic

I am about to commence painting troops for the 2nd Regiment of Italian troops from the levy of May 1812 (?). Can anyone point me in the right direction for obtaining details of the Regimental Flag and Kings Colour Flag this regiment carried?
Grateful for any help with this.

I don't believe they had an different flag from any other Italian infantry they.

This is a good generate for the Italians:

napitalia.org.uk/eng

link

@ britishbuldog, I suspect you are not meaning the Kingdom of Italy, but possibly Lord Bentinck's Italian Levy 1812-1816? I have not seen anything on standards for the 3 regiments of the levy.

Do you mean this one? The book looks really good if you are interested in these regiments.

link

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the comments and the links to useful sites.

Prince of Essling – Yes you are correct I am interested in the Bentinck's Italian Levy of 1812 – 1816.

Whirlwind – Thanks for the link. It makes very interesting reading and covers a lot of information that will be useful to me.

No worries bb,

The flag is at the end of the uniform section. It is white with
INDIPENDENZA
ITALIANA
in red characters written on it (in the centre)

From " Le Legioni anglo-italiane" by Iliari

"Allegato Scarlet or Blue?
L'uniforme prescritta alla leva italiana dalle Regulations di Bentinck del 13 maggio 1812 era blu con fodere e filettature rosse. La citata lettera di Clinton al cognato, datata 22 febbraio 1813 da San Juan, attesta però inoppugnabilmente che già in Spagna (e dunque fin dall'inizio) la leva italiana (o almeno il 2° reggimento) era «dressed in scarlet», cioè indossava la giacca rossa, tipica della fanteria inglese, e anche della maggior parte dei corpi stranieri. Rossa è anche la giacca del capitano F. de Campi conservata nel Museo del risorgimento di Trento, e i figurini delle truppe inglesi a Genova e la stampa del Comune del 3° Regg.to Italiano al servizio Inglese conservata nella civica raccolta delle stampe "A. Bertarelli" di Milano rappresentano la leva italiana in giacca rossa con mostre verdi, fodera bianca e nidi di rondine (distintivo delle truppe leggere), shakot alto con pennacchio verde e pantaloni grigi infilati nelle mezze ghette nere. Una spiegazione della difformità tra le prescrizioni e le testimonianze potrebbe essere che Bentinck ci abbia ripensato, per non confondere i "suoi" reggimenti con quelli siciliani, vestiti tutti di blu. Oppure che gli uomini destinati a formare il 1° reggimento, una volta arrivati a Malta, abbiano ricevuto, per economia, uniformi ivi immagazzinate, forse un surplus del Sicilian Regiment, che vi era di guarnigione e vestiva in giacca rossa con mostre verdi. O forse, più semplicemente, che i commercianti inglesi di Messina abbiano imposto al precipitoso Bentinck una variante di loro convenienza. L'attribuzione alla leva italiana dell'uniforme riprodotta dal poliedrico Charles Hamilton Smith (1776-1859) nel manoscritto dell'Università di Harvard (e nella copia del 1814 posseduta dalla Bibliothèque Nationale de Paris), e ripresa nel 2000 da René Chartrand, è senza dubbio erronea. Infatti (come provano le stesse tavole che corredano il saggio dello studioso canadese) l'uniforme attribuita alla leva italiana da Smith non differisce in alcun modo da quella della Legione piemontese, e deve dunque identificarsi con quest'ultima. Del resto la diversità del colore di fondo (blu anziché rosso) riflette non a caso il diverso inquadramento politico dei due corpi, reclutati in concorrenza fra loro fra i prigionieri di Portsmouth, e manifesta proprio l'intenzione di distinguerli, anche perché la legion era comunque destinata a passare presto al servizio sardo. La giacca del figurino è blu con colletto, risvolti e paramani rossi e bottoni gialli; i pantaloni sono grigi, lo shako cilindrico e nero con visiera, coccarda nera, pennacchio e il corno da caccia distintivo delle truppe leggere. Come nota Chartrand, il colore verde delle spalline e del pennacchio indica un carabiniere, armato di moschetto con baionetta."

or roughly via google ntrans;ate:

""Scarlet or Blue?
The uniform prescribed by the Italian draft levy by the Bentinck Regulations of 13 May 1812 was blue with red linings and threads. The aforementioned letter from Clinton to his brother-in-law, dated February 22, 1813 from San Juan, however, irrefutably attests that already in Spain (and therefore from the beginning) the Italian conscript (or at least the 2nd regiment) was "dressed in scarlet", that is he wore the red jacket, typical of English infantry, and also of most foreign bodies. Red is also the jacket of Captain F. de Campi preserved in the Museum of the Risorgimento of Trento, and the figures of the English troops in Genoa and the press of the Municipality of the 3rd Italian Reg. In English service kept in the civic collection of prints "A. Bertarelli "in Milan represent the Italian levy in a red jacket with green facings, white lining and swallow's nests (badge of the light troops), high shako with green plume and grey trousers tucked in the half black leggings. An explanation of the discrepancy between the prescriptions and the testimonies could be that Bentinck has rethought this, in order not to confuse "his" regiments with the Sicilian ones, all dressed in blue. Or that the men destined to form the 1st regiment, once arrived in Malta, received, for the sake of economy, uniforms stored there, perhaps a surplus of the Sicilian Regiment, which was a garrison and dressed in a red jacket with green displays. Or perhaps, more simply, that the English merchants of Messina have imposed a variant of their convenience on the precipitous Bentinck. The attribution to Italian drafting of the uniform reproduced by the multifaceted Charles Hamilton Smith (1776-1859) in the manuscript of the Harvard University (and in the copy of 1814 owned by the Bibliothèque Nationale de Paris), and taken up again in 2000 by René Chartrand, is undoubtedly erroneous. In fact (as evidenced by the same tables that accompany the essay by the Canadian scholar) the uniform attributed to the Italian levy by Smith does not differ in any way from that of the Piedmontese Legion, and must therefore identify with the latter. Moreover, the diversity of the background colour (blue instead of red) reflects, not surprisingly, the different political framework of the two bodies, recruited in competition among the prisoners of Portsmouth, and expresses precisely the intention to distinguish them, also because the legion was however destined to switch to Sardinian service soon. The jacket of the sketch is blue with collar, cuffs and red handguards and yellow buttons; the trousers are grey, the cylindrical and black shako with visor, black cockade, plume and the distinctive hunting horn of the light troops. As Chartrand notes, the green color of the shoulder straps and the plume indicates a carabiniere, armed with a musket with a bayonet."

Ah….ok, sorry, I misinterpreted.

@whirlwind, good link but I don't see any uniforms or flags for the Italian levy units. I am presuming one has to buy the ebook to see them. Is this the case?

I can see a uniform and a flag in the preview bits of the e-book. I can't see any page numbering but the flag is on the page after the page with footnote 95 on. I have taken a screenshot of it though.

Here's an example of an extant Sicilian officer's uniform that I posted some time ago.

Paul :)

Nice one Paul and thanks.

Do you have a photo of an enlisted man's uniform?

Also, thanks to the Prince of Essling for his input. A most interesting debate/research.

No, I don't I'm afraid…At least, I think I don't.

The chaps that went against Suchet? I saw pics with a Tarleton over a short Brit like jackets. Here long turnbacks, which means fr revolution coukd be used, nearly?
I thought of this annoying thing of having to cut Tarleton heads to stick over Brits. No fun.

Here's something I posted on another site some years ago. I believe that it was from Military Modelling magazine.

Thanks for posting the print Dibble. I will check my old copies of MM. Tarleton helmets!?

The Military Modelling article is about the Sicilian regiment raised in 1806 by Stuart.

Ironduke596:

November 1990 is the issue.

Extract from Cecil C.P. Lawson "A History of the Uniforms of the British Army Volume 5" about the Italian Legion (not the Sicilian Regiment) link

And we do not have the figs. Very hard to do.

Hi Everyone,
Thanks to all who responded to my post. Just an update to let you know that Stuart at Maverick Models has printed the flag from Wirlwind's link for me.
I have not decided yet whether to paint the coats blue or red although I am tending towards the red.