"General de Brigade Blancard during the 100 day campaign" Topic

It`s me again about the uniform details during the 100 day campaign. Sorted out the colors for the 2 regiments of Carabiniers (With a lot of choices, see topic on trumpeters and troopers. Now its time to look at the Brigade commander Blancard.

I started to convert a figure and looking for the correct uniform details. General and a ADC from the regiment

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In the background is my test sheet with blue shades for the uniforms. I assume petite tenue de campagne?

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and bearskin covers for the pistols.

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No oak leafs on the turnbacks? Blue or white pantalon? Cuirass and/or helmet yellow copper or red copper? Fraise in red with gold edging. Chenille in black (as distinction of a General de Brigade) instead of red?

There are representations of a general de Brigade (Chouard) in 1812 by Knötel, Benigni,Courcelle.. and a uniform plate but their all about 1812.

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What type of sabre would the General Blancard be carrying?

Thanks again for all the information you are willing to share.

The two illustrations you show of General of Carabiniers suggest that they wore the typical French navy blue, long-tailed general uniform. Dark blue, not light blue.

GdeP

To avoid any miscommunication; the blue shades are for the troopers and officers distinctions (Colar, turnbacks,piping,horse saddle cloth,..) if I do the habits in white. The generals habit would be off course bleu imperial.

Great idea, Van Damme!

As Blancard had been Colonel of the 2e Carabiniers before being made their brigade commander, my own opinion is that he would probably have retained and used his own helmet, complete with its red chenille, simply because he would have been proud of his link with his old regiment.

I've no proof for this theory at all, but that's my best guess.

So, I'm imagining:

General de brigade habit, in dark imperial blue, with standard gold embroidery on collar, cuffs and tails.

Gold epaulettes for a general de brigade.

Carabinier officer's cuirasse and helmet.

Dark red saddle and saddle cloth, edged in gold.

Like I said, I've absolutely nothing to back this up, but that's just my hunch at reconstructing what he wore.

Hope that helps.

. . . white saddle equally plausible, as you've suggested.

Idk, but he looks like a badass in that uniform and armor.

I agree generals in dark blue – in case of the embroidery, it would depend on the dress, in petite tenue – very reduced embroidery in contrast to grande tenue

Well, hang on, hang on, gentlemen. Let's not be too hasty.

The "navy blue, long-tailed general uniform" surely reflects only the fact that most generals came from the foot branches of the army because they were the most numerous. Thus arises a syllogism:

Infantry / artillery wore blue coats
Most generals came from the infantry / artillery
Therefore generals wore blue coats.

But: why would a general of carabiniers start wearing an infantry uniform all of a sudden, just because he made general? Did lancer, or dragoon, or hussar generals wear blue coats?

There were two regiments of carabiniers which makes them a brigade which makes them a general de brigade's command. It follows that as this was a native rank within the carabinier food chain, Blancard was thus still a carabinier in that rank. So why wouldn't he wear a carabinier uniform with a general's distinctions? As opposed to the conjecture here, which is the reverse – an infantry general's uniform with a few transplanted carabinier distinctions and – rather oddly – red cuirass cuffs, cuirassier-stylee?

I'd have him in officer's rig, with white coat, blue cuffs, copper covered cuirass, but probably with a bicorne, and absolutely caked in gold.

It's rising through a few ranks, admittedly, but Bessieres habitually wore an elaborate Hussar uniform, as of course did Lasalle, both Colbert and Krasinski tend to be represented in red Lancer uniforms, and N himself …
well, it would look dull if all Generals were in greatcoats. I'm sure there must be other examples (Murat doesn't count). With regard to miniatures specifically, since I already have completed a few Heavy Cavalry generals in bicorne and steel cuirasse, the choice for Blancard will be the same, only with a Carabineer version. A white habit loaded with gold oak-leaves &c. has very definite visual attractions, though it might be caked with mud in June 1815. In 15mm, for the most part (leaving aside a couple of Old G "personalities") this just means carving a few OPCs from another manufacturer, and painting appropriately.

4e Cuir,
The general's uniform wasn't dark blue because it was an infantry colour.
Don't forget that the Cavalerie regiments, which became the Cuirassiers, all wore bleu imperial, as did the Carabiniers until 1810.
In any case, the regulations pubished in An X (1803) and then again in 1812 both confirmed that the uniform of generals, regardless arm of service, should wear a habit of bleu imperial.
However, where I do agree with you is that it's very possible that Blancard might have chosen to wear his Carabinier Colonel's habit, with upgraded epaulettes for a general de brigade.
In the same way that Desvaux de St. Maurice sometimes wore a general's uniform in the Hussar / Horse Artillery style.

As for the sabre, would general de Brigade Blancard carry a sabre like this?
url=https://ibb.co/R3CSHpP]

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or a more "traditional" Generals sword?

Command figures ready to paint. I have Brigade commander Blancard with an ADC, and regimental command for 1st and 2nd Carabiniers (Both a colonel and major).

url=https://ibb.co/J2D9LnF]

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Will take this topic to the Napoleonic gallery message board when the painting starts.

I picture Bessiers in a green guard chasseurs service uniform, but what do I know?

>>but Bessieres habitually wore an elaborate Hussar uniform,

No he didn't.
Exactly as Widowson states, Bessieres 'habitually' wore the undress coat/ dress of the Chasseurs, with aiguilettes of course, as he was Commander of the Guard and the chasseurs.
Very few illustrations / paintings place him in Generals dress.

As to Lasalle etc., and others, commanders sash and stars added to hussar dress etc.

The premise that 'most generals came from infantry and therefore wore blue' is a dying salmon gasping for air. Generals dress was officially ordained for 30 odd years before 1815 and had nothing to do with 'infantry'.

>> all wore bleu imperial- fluuffer… dignitaries and celebs may have worn it, the common man not. Blue came from the revolution, then it became 'National. N. just wanted to quantify everything in a new form, even when it remained the same old.

I have a number of Conrad plates and a few COurcelles. Both take liberties with colours and shades for the artistic representation. As did Rigo unless he explained himself in texts. (Rousellot usually apologied for 'variation' due to printing process). Former two should be used with, not taken too literally 'warning').

Cavalry/ Cuirassiers in 1802-04 didn't get new uniforms unless their old ones wore out first. Short skirts 'may' have appeared earlier than some suggest as the tails of coats/ habit became damaged and, since cut from one piece of cloth, the antidote was to shorten the offending articles (while restitching facings back on). And they were just as dark in 1809 as in 1800.

The lessons of the shortened legere habits @1800 were no great secret.
d

After more than a year of researching on the internet and a lot of re-sculpting my Carabinier Brigade is taking shape.
This post is about the Brigade command, so the rest I will post in another topic.

1čre Brigade Blancard with ADC
url=https://ibb.co/wQGmVXX]

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url=https://ibb.co/55JY1tK] ‌

Regards

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very impressive, even an ADC with armband

Thank you!

Yep, looks really good. A pleasure to see.

Yes quite superb !
Not my era, FWIW, but I don't recall any heavy cav types ADCs with armbands.
Excellent composition tho *bravo*
regards d

Well done!

Lucien Rousselot shows a heavy cav adc with an armband. However, I don't have any portraits with a heavy cav adc.

Exactly as Widowson states, Bessieres 'habitually' wore the undress coat/ dress of the Chasseurs, with aiguilettes of course, as he was Commander of the Guard and the chasseurs.
Very few illustrations / paintings place him in Generals dress.

Bessieres did habitually wear the undress uniform of the Guard Chasseurs a Cheval.

He was not, however, 'Commander of the Guard.' Napoleon always kept command/control of the Imperial Guard as a whole with himself, not to any one subordinate general. Bessieres usually commanded the Guard cavalry, and another marshal or senior general the Guard infantry. In the campaigns of the early Empire, Lefebvre was the chosen marshal for the latter.

In 1809 Bessieres commanded the Cavalry Reserve and did a much better job than Murat usually did.

And the 'regulation' uniform for general officers as a whole was a uniform coat of imperial blue, not an 'infantry' uniform. It is easy enough to look up:

link

I took the idea of the ADC armband from this uniform plate made by P. Courcelle

url=https://ibb.co/zSM1MPW]

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I would also opt for a usual ADC miniature along with the carabiniers – would make a striking contrast.

very nice, still I like very much the mix as Courcelle shows.

>>He was not, however, 'Commander of the Guard.'

He was more that than others were.
He issued orders, he administered the Guard when all the other Marshals were 'absent' and away from Paris for years on end when they couldn't possibly exercise 'control'
And you are right they had none- Inspector-Generalships being largely ceremonial posts in the Garde anyway.

Courcelle- ugh… gone the way of Martinet RE-prints; Knotel and Italian fakes on Pointless/ Farcebook etc.
Again- I've never seen a non-light cavalry uniformed officer ADC except for the Revolution/ Consular period, with a brassard. [Noted- Rousellot produced one].

And did Cuirassier ever deviate from red plumes? Again not seen contemporary proof. Seems to be an issue by 'extrapolation' IMHO,
cheers d

I came across the following notes in an email from Scott Bowden in 2007 appended here out of general interest:

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Inspection marginalia on both the 10 June 1815 and the 15 June 1815 returns for Napoleon's A. du Nord indicates that cuirasses were lacking in both regiments of carabiners.

For example, in the 1st Carabiniers on 15 June, with 32 officers (with 46 horses) and 402 other ranks (with 426 horses) present and under arms, the inspection notes state that only 257 cuirasses were noted as being worn, and of those, 86 had just been repaired.

In the 2nd Carabiniers, with 30 officers (with 41 horses) and 383 other ranks (with 373 horses) present and under arms, the marginalia mentions that only 225 cuirasses were being worn, and of those, 71 had just been repaired.

He issued orders, he administered the Guard…

That was because he was usually involved in the internal Guard's administration. But he was not the Imperial Guard's commander-Napoleon was.

The marshals involved with the Guard were not 'Inspector-Generals', but Colonel-Generals. Davout commanded the foot grenadiers, Soult the foot chasseurs. Bessieres did command the Guard cavalry and Mortier the artillery and sailors.

On campaign, Bessieres commanded the Guard cavalry, and Lefebvre the infantry. 'Napoleon never trusted the actual command of his entire Guard to any single officer.'-John Elting, Swords Around a Throne, 188.

the blue plumes with red tip could be the plumes for the ADCs – normally worn with the hat.

>> were not 'Inspector-Generals', but Colonel-Generals.

Yes my apologies my brain took off on me… but mostly ceremonial in the latter cases…

>>the blue plumes with red tip could be the plumes for the ADCs – normally worn with the hat.

Yes exactly and when except off duty or second dress did any officer wear such? Not on 'normal' uniforms except cavalerie-legere.

As I say it appears [to me] to be an extrapolation of one uniform to another giving 'effect' because the two coincide. I personally consider they would wear only white plumes to depict their 'staff' status, or at most with a coloured tip.

Anyway enough divergence…
d

white plumes, or partially white plumes are as far as I understand it associated with the staff of a unit, like officers not belonging to a company, like a colonel, or a major, or a chef de bataillon but not an ADC.

@Allan F Mountford

At the bottom of the page is the information you received in the mail from Scott Bowden. Question that remains is which is the source for this rapport?

Regards

link

vW- that's my understanding too.

>>vW- that's my understanding too.

It may be the understanding (you mean knowledge) about those people- but where and when did non-legere cavalry start using the same attributes of 'officaial' ADC uniform. And if so, why not complete in hussar mode? That was the regulation.
So speculatively nothing is solved.

As I understand – ADCs had a uniform, to recognize them as such, as they were attached to a general it wouldn't matter what kind of unit that general would command.

Some generals, or marshals, put those ADCs in fancy dress, Berthier for example.

I would like to know about any contemporary source or print showing ADCs in cuirassier's dress and helmet, perhaps pure fiction by Rousselot et al??

So far also the adjoints are not touched in this discussion.

@Van Damme
I do not know.
However, the number of cuirasses cited by Bowden is the same quantity reported by Couderc (page 486, 'Napoleon, Ses Dernieres Armees).

WIP progress so far has been slow, mainly testing colors and learning to hold a brush after all the sculpting. Some examples:

url=https://ibb.co/Z8SXHZP]

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The troopers blue facing color in reality is quit dark (like cornflower blue) but on a 28mm figure it looks to dark to me, so I think I have to lighten this color a bit. I assume that the shabraque and facing colors are the same color?
Regards

I agree the blue looks a bit too dark on the miniature.

Otherwise they look smashing.

This looks similar to uniform pieces I may have observed on my Grande Tour… (I've not looked up my records to confirm)…

@ von Winterfeldt, thank you

Officially the color for the facings is Blue ciel according the decreed of 7/02/1812 (Les Masses d`Habillement.

url=https://ibb.co/Z1MYXjC]

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I was thinking of using Vallejo royal blue

url=https://imgbb.com/]

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or vallejo medium blue (This color is lighter then the image below)

url=https://imgbb.com/]

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the royal blue looks quite nice, I would give it a try.

This is an interesting discussion. So now I have to ask the question. With the cloth sample above where is the information coming from that the Carabiners facings were sky blue? To me this does not look anything like sky blue but again my eyes may be deceiving me.

@Bear01,

Most likely a translation issue. Bleu de ciel (as in the sample) is quit dark (Like cornflower blue)
So if you google sky blue you get a light blue;

link

not only a translation issue but at this time – they had another idea about hues, for that reason it is a cul de sac to apply our understanding of hues to the 18th century and early 19th century.

I am looking forward to see the progress of the inspiring project of Van Damme.

For the 206th anniversary of that last battle of the emperor

Some progress on the project

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Regards

excellent, but now pas de charge for completing this inspiring project.

Perhaps an original helps____????

Ch.Emperi-museum.org

link

Click the photos (menu) then choose 'Carabinier'
~d