"Rank and File rules question ?" Topic

I've been playing a few rank and file games, but recently whilst browsing the rule came across something I think I'm doing wrong on morale checks. I'm not sure where else to ask, ask as theres no rules forum anymore. Can anyone clarify?

p32 says "When a unit loses a stand… it will have to to take a morale test during the morale phase" Which is what we've always played.
BUT
p32 under Morale Tests says "even though a charging morale test has slightly different modifiers to a normal morale test it is still the only morale test that the unit will take this turn"
p31 Drawn Melee says "There are no break tests or morale tests for winner or loser, the loser is simply forced away and its morale gets worse".

So if a French unit with a commander charges a Britsh unit without. British unit defensive fires, causing a french stand loss.
French take a charging morale test and pass, and charge home. In the melee both units lose one stand, but due to the French commander the British lose, and retire 2d6, dropping to unsteady.

1) During the morale phase, the french have already taken a morale test so do not take another, no matter how many stands they lose in melee ?
2) The British have already dropped to unsteady due to losing melee so also do not take a morale test. Is that correct?

Doesnt that mean Morale test will only really get taken due to Fire Casualties?
Or if the British drop to unsteady and Also take a morale test, they could rout straight away, which seems harsh.

HappyHiker,

I am also a big fan of R&F. The elegance of the combat system is what appealed to me. I have added a C2 system to it, as that is the most obvious area where I found them lacking. I use them for SYW.

You have correctly deduced the Morale Phase really only applies to casualties from the Fire Phase, so the answers to your questions are:

1) During the morale phase, the french have already taken a morale test so do not take another, no matter how many stands they lose in melee? Correct. Also, the winner of a melee does not suffer any adverse morale effects.

2) The British have already dropped to unsteady due to losing melee so also do not take a morale test. Is that correct? Correct, the morale result of dropping to unsteady from the melee is it.

Dave

Great thanks for the clarification. I realised I've been doing the morale test after the melee, but actually the rules say to do it after the fire phase, which is odd, but makes the rest of the melee rules make sense now.

Its a great ruleset, shame its not supported more. There used to be a Forum on the wensite but its gone now.I suppose you can only support a set for so long.

What C2 system did you use ?

Wait until you have a charge with no fire involved…..actually its easy to resolve.

I concur with Codiver regarding your queries and would also be interested in the C2 aspect. It is a good regimental game in so far as the Leader gets involved in the scraps but that is it. We tried command distance but didn't really get the same as a proper C2 system.

The one beauty of R&F is the ability to house rule without breaking the whole thing. For example the use of a D10 for morale instead of D6 which stops everything running away so easily and so on.

I agree, the absence of Crusader rules fora is annoying…

"Wait until you have a charge with no fire involved"
well funny you should say that, the reason I'm revisiting the rules is to see if I can make it work with the Medieval period. Which has ALOT less firing. I think it will still work, but the turn sequence is there to cope with closing fire, Archers can do that but its much rarer and I suspect makes for an Odd game. We've not actually play tested it yet, just written some rules down.

Hi everybody,

I own and played R&F and find it very interesting, easy with sound mechanisms.
Codiver, please, what means C2 ?

Thank you !

Alberto

Love R&F, took me ten minutes to explain rules to opponent and we were off and running. I like the simplicity of it all.

Alberto C2 is Command and Control

we've settled on using a D8 for the morale tests.

Thanks a lot Mike !

What are the house rules that some of you adopted to upgrade Command & Control in R&F?

Thank you

And another vote for R&F.
I'm another one of those rules collectors. Buy a copy of everything, play two games, go back to what you like. And I like R&F. It has a ease or simplicity level that, to me at least, I find sits well between the extreme 1970's "+1 for helmet, +1 for shield, does he have body armour? Okay, +1 for that…" and the modern "turn that card, roll six die and count the 6's…" type rules. You can hack bits off, add bits on and it plays well.

I've no idea why Crusader don't support their systems, seems a little weird. How can you build up a fan base if you ignore your customers?

Wow, lots of love for R&F, I didn't realise it was so well thought of (or is it a small circle of core fans). I love the no stat line, no save throws, effectiveness drops as unit takes losses, simple with a period feel.

I like the d8 for larger (over 6 bases) units, but never put into practice. How does it work for smaller 4 base units. Is it too generous?

Ya, I wish R&F had it's own rules page for Napoleonics. Maybe March Attack and R&F/ Crusader questions?

If you play with entirely small units of 4 then d8/d10 is generous I feel,however if you have a mix of sizes then depends what the 4 is; if elite then d8/d10 is reasonable.

Our idea of introducing d10 was because it seemed odd that a unit of 10 bases could so easily fail morale when 10% (1 base) are hors d combat; makes more sense for 4 bases when it becomes 25%.

Last time I played, we varied the dice depending on unit size. 3 stands roll a d6, 6 stands roll a d8. I think it's the dice size needs to be bigger than the number of stands in a unit. We only play 3 and 6 stand units though. The other way is just to make veteran morale class 2, regular 3 and green 4 but then -1 on form a square, changing the dice seemed easier.

Someone answered the what is C2 question. The two most significant mods we added were:

1) Moved the Initiative Phase to the first thing in the turn. The winner of the Initiative gets to decide what order all applicable turn events occur: who declares charges first, who moves first, and who attaches/detaches leaders first. So, for example, no sitting around the End Phase where both sides are waiting to see if the other guy is going to attach.

2) C2. First, I will say I hate written order systems, "realistic" as they may be. Second, some sort of "chit" system would probably work. For simplicity, we went with what I call a "Napoleon's Battles" style system. Top down. Unattached CinC is always In Command, is able to put subordinate leaders within 36" In Command. All leaders have a Tactical Radius of 12" that allows them to put units In Command, and affect their morale. Leader's that are not In Command can make a roll to act on their own, as can "Independent" units. Units have to be In Command to Charge (cavalry can always counter-charge).
Couple of other aspects, but that's the basics…

Many thanks Codiver for the details on the mods